["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

You say there was a gear issue before?

.

I suspect Sam's gear damage occured during the fuel pump eccentric mishap.

Cam slid back far enough to get on the edge of the gear.

Once fixed he just had abnormal clearance. Not an ongoing problem.

Clay

Oh and Sam,
If you've got time, would you mind taking some measurements with the cam in the block? Bend a right angle on a piece of wire and measure top and bottom of cam gear to the distributor hole. The average of the two numbers should match middle of distributor gear (pushed against shim) to gasket on distributor base.

That measurement has eluded us here on the forum for some time now. I know there's lots of room for leeway because of the way the two gears mesh. Just seems there should be a measurement for proper shim. No matter how much end play the distributor has. Since the distributor gear is pushed up against the shim when the engine is running.

Thanks in advance if you don't mind doing it.
Just not able to do it myself right now.
Clay

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

I suspect Sam's gear damage occured during the fuel pump eccentric mishap.

Cam slid back far enough to get on the edge of the gear.

Once fixed he just had abnormal clearance. Not an ongoing problem.

Clay

Yes

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

Oh and Sam,
If you've got time, would you mind taking some measurements with the cam in the block? Bend a right angle on a piece of wire and measure top and bottom of cam gear to the distributor hole. The average of the two numbers should match middle of distributor gear (pushed against shim) to gasket on distributor base.

That measurement has eluded us here on the forum for some time now. I know there's lots of room for leeway because of the way the two gears mesh. Just seems there should be a measurement for proper shim. No matter how much end play the distributor has. Since the distributor gear is pushed up against the shim when the engine is running.

Thanks in advance if you don't mind doing it.
Just not able to do it myself right now.
Clay

Clay,

I will try to remember that when it comes time to install the cam. The cam is out again now and honestly I think (being careful as I was) I dinged the cam bearings enough to not want to put the cam in again until I'm putting it in for good.

What might be almost as good is from the top and bottom of the rear cam bearing to distributor hole. I'll try to get that tonight.

Sam

[glhs#116]

Got the replacement pushrod plates (one of my stock ones was damaged) and so installed and torqued down the rocker studs.

[glhs#116]

In other news. I got all my file-fit rings sized finally. This is just a trial of the installation funnel. I can't install any pistons since I'm still waiting on the crank but they are all assembled.


A little more creativity was required in putting the valve springs in place. I have installed the positive seals for the intake valves since my head had been machined for them by previous owner. However, I still planned on running the o rings and the shields because I figured it couldn't hurt and the exhausts would still need them. But after assembling the first head I found several of my oil shields were damaged. And it seems you can't just order them either...


Eventually, the solution seemed obvious. Shields only on the exhausts. It lets me pick my eight best shields. And the intakes hopefully don't need them.

[steve25]

Gee Sam, no need to have the heater core hooked up where you live?

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by steve25

Gee Sam, no need to have the heater core hooked up where you live?

I don't live here forever (I hope). And I'll need more than a heater in England. I'll probably also need a wire for the back window!

In other news, I've torn all the AC stuff out (tossed the condensor this weekend). The stuff didn't ever work well, I never used it and it was a botched job. Now stuff will be easier to get to, there's less dead weight and it's one less thing in front of the radiator. I mean hey, the windows roll down...



Sam

[steve25]

I was at a car show last year where this 9 year boy being that it was his first time near cars older then him was blown away when he found that cars with power windows was not always the norm.
His reaction and the look on his face was funny as hell!!

[glhs#116]

So, I decided to secure the oil pickup tube. Now, if it were me I wouldn't worry. That tube is hard as hell to install and my old one certainly hadn't fallen out. But too many experienced people I respect seem to have tight tubes fall out.

Welding is out for me but I remembered Cliff talking about using a set screw. I found a small (5mm) set screw that I had a tap for. I tried it out first on my old pump. I drilled the 3mm hole and then followed up with a 4mm bit, then the tap. Cut the screw to length. Apart from the stress of getting all the chips out seemed like it should work.


So I started very carefully on my new pump. Took everything out. Drilled and tapped the hole. But in the back of my mind I was wondering how I would keep this set screw from backing out...

[glhs#116]

I cut the screw to length, filed the end, chased the threads.


My first thought was to use a thing I always try to avoid. Visions of broken bolts and stuck fasteners. But I figured here, surely, was a case for using some threadlocker.


But then, as it happened, I found that my screw head interfered with the bottom plate. This was a blessing in disguise because it meant I now had to file a flat in the side of the screw head. That screw isn't going anywhere and so neither should my pickup tube.

[steve25]

That's a good way to do it !
How is your cover plate to gear clearance checking in ?

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by steve25

That's a good way to do it !
How is your cover plate to gear clearance checking in ?

You guys are like my conscience that I try to ignore. I fear it is on the tight side. The gears spin freely but if I push-pull on the shaft the play is tiny. Guessing in the .001 to .002 range. That's too little, isn't it?

Sam

[Cliff R]

+2

I will never weld a pick-up to the pump again, despite how many very well talented engine builders will recommend that deal. The way you did it insures the pickup will never turn or fall out.

The problem with the pick-up being sent with the pumps these days is that they are "soft" material and don't have the memory to stay in place once pressed into the pump. Another good option is to make a steel strap and MIG weld it to the pick-up then go back under one of the cover bolts to hold it in place. A slightly longer grade 8 cover bolt torqued in place insures that deal isn't going anywhere either.

Someplace else that you NEVER want to use a tac weld is to retain the snap ring on a TH400 direct drum retainer for the sprag. I've had several "high end" TH400's come in here from very well known builders that failed simply because the tac weld let go and the sprag kicked the snap ring off the drum. As bad as that idea is folks giving advice on TH400 builds on the NET still advocate doing that instead of using the far superior 4L80E spiral lock ring instead.......FWIW.......Cliff

[steve25]

I would sand another .001" into the gears, should be all of 5 minutes of figure 8 motion!

[glhs#116]

Still waiting on the crankshaft but I took care of a little something that was bothering me. If you look back a few posts you will see that I have the umbrellas only on the exhaust valve springs. I realised that the factory umbrella basically shims the spring by the thickness of the metal (about 0.030). I ordered some 0.030 spring shims and stuck them under the intake valve springs (the ones I removed the umbrellas from). Probably not a big deal but I feel better now.

[krisr]

Awesome work on the home rebuild mate! Whilst I didn't have to do a crank rebalance like you're getting done now, I just finished doing a complete strip and rebuild of my 400 due to damage from exhaust valve springs losing seat pressure causing all 8 valves and pistons to just touch. Ended up doing a half fill with hard blok, machining the valve reliefs in my pistons whilst in the block by my making up cutters out of old valves (piston assembly balance was similar to yours after machining and polishing, within a gram or 2) as I had a heap taken off the heads and intake to bring the compression up and to clear the new solid roller. The work I did would probably make some on the board here cringe because it wasn't done in a "shop" but i've learnt my way around inside these engines enough to do as many tweaks to get mine to work, plus i've got all of the measuring equipment that a shop would have (ex-machinist) and had all the time in the world to do it properly (have lost count of the # of times it was mocked up, measured, cut, disassembled, cleaned, mocked up, etc..). The result is the engine has been absolutely flawless so far and I look forward to many many years of beating on it. So keep at it man, the end result is worth it when you fire it back up again and let your neighbours know you still have that bad ass car of yours!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_P9k4HkYw

[gtofreek]

Sorry Sam, we're hounding the crank grinder as much as we can without pissing him off. He says he's about done with it, so hopefully I can balance it on Monday or Tuesday and get it on it's way to you.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

+2

I will never weld a pick-up to the pump again, despite how many very well talented engine builders will recommend that deal. The way you did it insures the pickup will never turn or fall out.

The problem with the pick-up being sent with the pumps these days is that they are "soft" material and don't have the memory to stay in place once pressed into the pump. Another good option is to make a steel strap and MIG weld it to the pick-up then go back under one of the cover bolts to hold it in place. A slightly longer grade 8 cover bolt torqued in place insures that deal isn't going anywhere either.

Someplace else that you NEVER want to use a tac weld is to retain the snap ring on a TH400 direct drum retainer for the sprag. I've had several "high end" TH400's come in here from very well known builders that failed simply because the tac weld let go and the sprag kicked the snap ring off the drum. As bad as that idea is folks giving advice on TH400 builds on the NET still advocate doing that instead of using the far superior 4L80E spiral lock ring instead.......FWIW.......Cliff

Here is what I have found about that deal. The pickup entry in the pump has a large chamfer on it. When they make the pump, they bore the hole for the pickup to press into, then they chamfer the entry. Problem is that chamfer rolls the edge slightly at the entry. It doesn't actually leave a burr, but instead, it makes the hole slightly smaller right at the entry. So if you just press the tube in, and beat it down until it seats, it will be loose and fall out. Reason being is the rolled edge at the entry over compresses the pickup tube and makes it too small to retain a press fit. Then if you "seat" the pickup, this extra wack will further loosen the press fit.

What I do is when the pump is all apart for cleaning and inspection, I use a sandpaper flapper on a split mandrel and I flap the entry of the pickup tube hole. This removes the slightly rolled edge so it doesn't over compress the tube. I had two identical pick ups here. Measured the same thickness, and from same manufacturer. I simply installed one as usual and noticed before it was seated, it was still fairly snug but would twist without a lot of resistance, but as soon as I "seated" it, it fell right out. So I flapped the entry, and re-installed the other pickup, and it was tight. Then I "seated" it just to see what would happen, and it was still tight and would not pull out. Since then. I have been flapping the entry to all the pumps as SOP. Then we Tig weld them on[mig welding usually seems to break off] in three spots, with a rod made for dissimilar metals. After that, I use a drop of green Loctite made for porosity filling to seal any possible air leaks between the tube and the pump.

[gtofreek]

Those oil shields are probably broken because of the valve springs being slightly larger O.D. than the factory springs those shields were made for. I would remove them all before they all break. Then get the guides cut for positive seals.

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Those oil shields are probably broken because of the valve springs being slightly larger O.D. than the factory springs those shields were made for. I would remove them all before they all break. Then get the guides cut for positive seals.

This is another one of those "if my situation were different" things. My heads, as received, are only machined for positive seals on the intake side. The chances of me giving my heads to a machine shop in Qatar are zero. So I'm working with what I have. Of the two broken oil shields which I have only one appears to have broken in my fifteen years with the car (ten plus years with the current valve springs). You can see the one that is split has some brass solder on it. That happened before I owned the car. So I have some confidence in running the shields on these springs. And, all things being equal, I'm more worried about excess oil burning than I am about largish pieces of oil shield coming off which are unlikely to enter the oiling system and cause a problem. So, since I have only the O rings on the exhaust side I like the idea of retaining the shields.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Problem is that chamfer rolls the edge slightly at the entry. It doesn't actually leave a burr, but instead, it makes the hole slightly smaller right at the entry. So if you just press the tube in, and beat it down until it seats, it will be loose and fall out.

If true this is a notable finding. Certainly my previous pump (the 80psi installed by the local shop) had the tube only pressed in and it showed no signs of coming at all loose. Could be luck. Could be the manufacturing is better now.

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Sorry Sam, we're hounding the crank grinder as much as we can without pissing him off. He says he's about done with it, so hopefully I can balance it on Monday or Tuesday and get it on it's way to you.

Heh! I know I've been also trying to avoid hounding you. As much as the weather is turning ****ty and I am anxious until this is finished, the last thing I am looking for is a "rush" job. So I appreciate all your efforts and I wait in hope.

I can't say how much I appreciate all the help and the benefit of all the collective years of wisdom here. I'm sure the old girl will be better than new once back together. One benefit of the long delay is I have the luxury of deliberation. For instance, I was reading up on piston rings and I saw that the oil expansion ring should go in "teeth down" (where the ends butt together). I hadn't thought of that when I put the ring packs on and I corrected the two that I had put on "teeth up". I'm trying to be really careful but it strikes me that there remain a lot of ways for me to screw this up before it's in the car and burning rubber.

Thanks to all my forum "virtual mates"!

Sam

[glhs#116]

Got my tap and die set today. It's a cheap one but I just didn't have any SAE taps or dies. I chased all the block and head threads (well, apart from the huge rear main holes which I didn't have a tap for). If you remember the hole in my one intake runner from post 125 (http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=125) it's been really bugging me. It's actually a huge hole because I pried the loose bit you see in that picture out. I had planned to just seal the threads on the valve cover studs but it is really a huge jagged hole at the top of the port.

So, with some difficulty I tapped the valve cover bolt hole all the way down through the hole into the intake port. I then got one of my old oil pan bolts (I ordered a new set anyway) and cut the head off. I threaded it up from the bottom with some blue thread locker on it. Then I ground the rest of it away. I think this will be much better...