[WARPed]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Not bashing here...I welcome everything that is new too.

What I don't welcome is smoke being blown up my backside, on a product that is built around a superior design, that SHOULD outperform the archaic inline valve design, but to date hasn't. In continuing with the devil's advocate angle...why is that, if the design is superior?

Brian, not doubting you but curious who made the claim the CV1 head was "superior" and to what? I feel it is a step in the right direction, getting an intake manifold is what is needed and being worked on for more race oriented combos.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Tom,

That post wasn't directed to you, but thanks for the concern.

BTW, the picture posted about a PS Ford head with the valves rotated around would require a new design block with the lifter bores in the proper location, but I'm sure you know that.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Like I said, Calvin, it appears that nothing is sacred on the Pontiac Block but the bore spacing BUT no Pontiac guy will buy a block that he can't screw his 1959 cast iron heads on so what difference does it make.

People can talk about "being left behind" but you already have agreed to hop on only one leg for the race and the race is a Boston Marathon your odds aren't too good that you will even be competitive much less win, except in the "hopping on one leg" competition.

Tom Vaught

[LiL Jack]

Bob and Frank have made a couple of the bigger bore spacing blocks.

They are just very hard to get.

This is the next step for Pontiacs IMHO.

I talked to David Visner about his billet canted valve head and think it would be one of the best heads out there, just reall pricie.

[Tom Vaught]

I was aware of the custom "One of a very Few" Bob and Frank Blocks with wider bore spacing. Surprised the "Purists" did not put up a sign in front of the company saying:
"Oh! The Shame of It All"

Tom Vaught

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I was aware of the custom "One of a very Few" Bob and Frank Blocks with wider bore spacing. Surprised the "Purists" did not put up a sign in front of the company saying:
"Oh! The Shame of It All"

Tom Vaught

Just tell them its stock!

LSM can build you a nice billet block for $12K, yes a Pontiac. You could be the first kid on your block with a billet Pontiac block.

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

People can talk about "being left behind" but you already have agreed to hop on only one leg for the race and the race is a Boston Marathon your odds aren't too good that you will even be competitive much less win, except in the "hopping on one leg" competition.

Tom Vaught

Actually a very good analogy.

[S/st 54]

[QUOTE=LiL Jack;4952000]Bob and Frank have made a couple of the bigger bore spacing blocks.

They are just very hard to get.

This is the next step for Pontiacs IMHO.


I will most deffinately agree with you on that one!!!!!!!!!
Mmmmmmmmm a square 572 I likes me the sound of that or a standard deck 604.......I most deffinately think that should be the next direction the Pontiac world takes!!!!

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by WARPed

Brian, not doubting you but curious who made the claim the CV1 head was "superior" and to what? I feel it is a step in the right direction, getting an intake manifold is what is needed and being worked on for more race oriented combos.

It's a splayed valve design, like the BBC. It's a superior design regarding port layout and flow to an inline valve design, no question. I don't think (at least I'd like to hope not) that the CV1 was designed as a choice to go to for power levels that are already acheivable with what we already have. Otherwise, why bother with it, when an intake and headers will need to be taken in consideration as well? No, it's my belief that this head was intended to be a "step up" from the inline design, to provide a more competitive edge against the "Brand-X" splayed valve race engines out there.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

It's a splayed valve design, like the BBC. It's a superior design regarding port layout and flow to an inline valve design, no question. I don't think (at least I'd like to hope not) that the CV1 was designed as a choice to go to for power levels that are already acheivable with what we already have. Otherwise, why bother with it, when an intake and headers will need to be taken in consideration as well? No, it's my belief that this head was intended to be a "step up" from the inline design, to provide a more competitive edge against the "Brand-X" splayed valve race engines out there.

Instead of comparing it to a BBC, a platform that doesn't have an inline head available, and a platform where all aftermarket heads are of a slightly different angle than stock...

Look at SBs, both inline 23/18 degree SBCs versus SB2s or windsor inline SBFs versus Cleveland style heads...

The only SBs that are clearly making an easy HP advantage is the 4.5 B.S. stuff, R07s and the like.

So the valves are twisted and canted, find me another style head like this where two exhaust valves are right next to each other...

[GTOGEORGE]

Hey I got an idea lets stretch the Pontiac block so we can have bigger CI engines but not worry about sealing up the heads to block that we already have. Sh_t Jack can only get 25 passes on his head gaskets on a lite hit of nitrous. What I'm trying to say is let's not try to run before we can walk. We have heads that flow over 450 - 550cfm I'm pretty Damn sure those should give us 5 sec ET's but have we run any.......No! WHY? Blocks we don't need right now (unless they have more head stud holes casted into them), better sealing heads, gaskets, more head studs/better studs......pick one, heck pick two!

GTO Georn

[3fastgtos]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

I certainly cannot speak for the Goateus Maximus team, but I can say that we sure don't run inline heads because they are better....

Honestly it's important to me that the engine still looks like a Pontiac. If the canted valve heads turns out better I still wouldn't have them. Obviously the KRE heads outflow the heck out of mine but they don't look right for me.
Just my .02

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by 3fastgtos

Honestly it's important to me that the engine still looks like a Pontiac. If the canted valve heads turns out better I still wouldn't have them. Obviously the KRE heads outflow the heck out of mine but they don't look right for me.
Just my .02

We feel the same way. When I designed our billet Ram Air V derivative heads, I kept the stock valve cover rail for exactly the same reason.

But.....I fully support other racers using any and all of the alternatives. Our little community is too small to be taking sides.

JMHO,
Eric

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Our little community is too small to be taking sides.


Eric

Absolutely!

[Travis Q]

Originally Posted by 3fastgtos

Honestly it's important to me that the engine still looks like a Pontiac. If the canted valve heads turns out better I still wouldn't have them. Obviously the KRE heads outflow the heck out of mine but they don't look right for me.
Just my .02

I can understand and appreciate that. To each his own.

Myself, I could give a crap less what the head looks like.

I am so sick and tired of hearing "it sure is fast for a Pontiac". I want it to be fast, PERIOD.

[Travis Q]

And by the way, there isn't a head available for the Pontiac that I would have right now.

They ALL seem to have issues in some form or another, or are not ideal for our application (not a slam at all on anyone's heads).

The only exception is the billet RAV of Eric's.

[Travis Q]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

King Kinsler and Queen Jack, are you listening????


Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Don't take my statement out of context. Although we are severely limited by funds and time, there isn't another head currently available that I would run other than what we are currently running. It's just that there isn't anything else that would work any better in our application.

Given the time, I could design a billet cylinder head that would be light years ahead of what we have now for our application. And, like Marcella said, I might sell three sets in the next twenty years. Until the Good Lord gives me another thirty hours in a week and a lot more disposable income, I'll be forced to stick with what we have, unfortunately. So be it.

And if I had the disposable income, I would probably just build a Brad 8 or a AJ481X, anyway. At least it would be faster, lighter, and easier to get parts for!

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Travis Q

I can understand and appreciate that. To each his own.

Myself, I could give a crap less what the head looks like.

I am so sick and tired of hearing "it sure is fast for a Pontiac". I want it to be fast, PERIOD.

I'm not sure we will ever break that stigma from the Brand Xers, Travis.

[Tom Vaught]

Why would ANY "ENEMY" fear us when we use up all of our Bullets shooting at each other.

Tom Vaught

[Elarson]

I have a personal inclination to do things that haven't been done before.

It would be more exciting for me to run a 5.90 with a stock bore space, wedge Pontiac than to run a 5.70 with a cookie-cutter, bought-out-of-a-catalog hemi.

Everybody else's inclinations are fine too. I just can't resist a challenge.

Eric

[Travis Q]

I like a challenge, too. But I like to win more. At least go rounds.

You know what they say....quitters never win, and winners never quit. But those who never win and never quit....

are idiots!