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#81
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etc? There are so many things to try, people give up way to early sometimes in their combo;s and start switching things out, instead of optimizing!
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Darby 74 Grandville 2Dr 455 c.i 4550# 2011 1.60 60 ft,7.33@94.55-11.502@117.74 2017, 74 firebird -3600 lbs (all bests) 1.33 60 ft, 6.314@108.39 9.950@134.32 M/T 275/60 ET SS Drag Radial 2023,(Pontiac 505) 1.27 60 ft, 5.97@112.86, 9.48@139.31.... 275/60 Radial Pro's |
The Following User Says Thank You to grandville455 For This Useful Post: | ||
#82
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#83
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i don’t race, but i do go out to the shop every now and again and gaze lovingly at my e-heads. wife is jealous but what can i say, i’ve got a wandering eye.
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#84
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Tell her your checking out the car.... Keep the E-heads a secret so she isn't jealous.
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#85
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Darby,
Went testing and tuning last month at Milan Dragway. It was hot and humid in the 80's and made 5 passes. Changed timing anywhere from 28 to 38 degrees, tried different launch rpm's(footbraked) and tried different shift points from 6000 to 6500. Went 11.20 @ 119.37 mph, 11.18 @ 120.10, 11.14(38 degrees timing)@ 119.83, 11.21 @ 119.38 and 11.20 @ 118.92 mph. 60 fts were anywhere from 1.61 to 1.57. Lash with this Jones cam is at .015/.019. I saw a guy on facebook with a wagon that has a motor similar to mine and he said his ran best with 41 degrees timing. Gonna try that next and maybe get a higher stall converter or pull the heads and have them shaved a bit for higher compression and try the 271/278 cam or just put a nitrous kit on it but I would rather run NA. Just need to rob a bank so I can build a 500+ inch shortblock that these HP's would work better on and get this heavy car moving. Want to be in the 10.00 range. |
#86
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Darby 74 Grandville 2Dr 455 c.i 4550# 2011 1.60 60 ft,7.33@94.55-11.502@117.74 2017, 74 firebird -3600 lbs (all bests) 1.33 60 ft, 6.314@108.39 9.950@134.32 M/T 275/60 ET SS Drag Radial 2023,(Pontiac 505) 1.27 60 ft, 5.97@112.86, 9.48@139.31.... 275/60 Radial Pro's |
#87
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I did a 395 pump gas Hp motor with small valves long while ago made some decent numbers. At the time Kauffman said others were putting small valves in the HPs with good results on smaller cube motors. Haven't seen anyone else here post about one though.
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds |
#88
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Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7420 |
#89
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Darby,
Fuel system consists of fuel cell, Aeromotive SS fuel pump, 1/2 inch line to dead head regulator and two 6-AN lines to carb. Intake is an unported Northwind with 2.3X1.2 intake opening and a one inch open spacer. Tried a super sucker spacer but no change in times. Tried a Victor once and ran the same. Cranking compression was 165/170 with old Lunati cam and 175/180 with this Jones cam. Number eight cylinder was 170. Jetting last time out was 85/93. Didn't check the plugs at the track. In the past, plugs were always a little dark but I never checked them at wide open throttle and shut down then check as that is what I have been told is the correct way to check them? |
#90
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I would try an initial test as Darby suggested different lash settings to determine the amount of intake and exhaust timing (duration) the motor wants. And adjust the intake valves first, don't change the lash settings for both valves at the same time as it wont tell you exactly which change helped or hurt. The intake lash adjustments will make a bigger change than the exhaust, hence the suggestion to start there. Looser first to see the effect. No minor changes, Suggest .010" looser (.025" lash), as a change like that is a pretty big "swipe" at the cam duration which should tell us something. And that should be a safe adjustment for testing purposes looking at your current lash settings. I don't think you could test a tighter lash more than .005" from where your are at currently safely. And if it picks up with a looser intake lash setting, for obvious reasons don't bother testing tighter. Same strategy to follow with the exhaust setting. If it responds favorably to looser intake lash, it will likely also respond well to a cam timing advance. As we do not know the ICL of your current Jones cam, you will need to experiment as deemed practical by your PTV clearance. All testing should be controlled to the best of your abilities, meaning no other changes to fueling or timing in these lash tests. Equivalent coolant temperatures. And during the same day, plus consider and account for the DA changes throughout the day while testing. I have had E-head combos that like 42 degrees of advance, but have not found the KRE HP heads to want near that much. 34-36 would be pushing it. And look for the simple stupid stuff, like not having WOT, or good grounds, or tight electrical connections,, or low float settings, or forgot to install rear jet extensions. It happens... |
#91
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Smaller valves would be a step in the correct direction.
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#92
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Do you know peak HP RPM and compression ratio? |
#93
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Good to see you posting
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The Following User Says Thank You to slowbird For This Useful Post: | ||
#94
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You are going to want to be at least .725 lift at the valve with those High Ports. Thats where they want to be, so let them do what they do best. IMO with the right cam and converter you should be in the mid 10s all day long. Your 60 foots need to be in the mid/low 1.4s , at least. Do you have a full flow sheet for your High Ports ? Not knocking you combo, I like your car. But its heavy and you need to get it moving off the line as soon as possible and and let those heads do what they do best and keep them there. Your engine is not that big so thats what you have to do IMO. Doing my own 461 with Ross flat tops, 80cc High Ports and I plan on being very lows 10s at least. |
#95
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Your deal reminds me of a similar situation I had about ten years ago. We built a stock block SBF for a young man and he hung out on the Internet too much. He had it in his head before the build was completed that we didn't make his heads "good enough". With our combination he had a nice street driver using one of our 4150 carbs, ran 10.20 second pass down the track and 9.50 on spray. He also surprised a few folks and took their money.... I attached a video of a pretty cool race he won. https://www.facebook.com/PaulKnippen...5349555623153/ Anyways that Fall he yanked the heads off and took them to the "man" that could make them work. Supposedly 30 cfm later and a couple of pounds lighter the car slowed down two tenths. I gave him fair warning the next thing coming will be the recommendations of bigger gear, more converter, bigger cam, bigger carburetor. Well over the next two seasons the 3.70 was replaced with a 4.10, converter was loosened up, 4150 was replaced with a 4500 and the cam we spec'd was replaced with a Wiz bang big duration camshaft.... The car now ran 10.15. I wouldn't be in a hurry to swap out your 3.73's. You might see a little but not a lot. Two of my cars are similar weight to yours and the one runs mid tens with 3.42's and the other goes 9's with a 3.89 both are factory block pump gas combos..... You could test with a shorter tire to get an idea. |
#96
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Ford driver got lucky! Hahaha!
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#97
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Thanks... You know you're the underdog when the track announcer says you're going to get your butt whipped.
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#99
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Here is a flow sheet of my 80cc High Ports with a very mild port job. Port openings are stock.
Notice the nice increase in flow PAST where is Jones cam is capable of lifting the intake valve ? See that ? Why would you not let the engine put that to good use ? If you are going to run that cam you were better off with the E heads. Truth is, for the vast majority of Pontiac racers E heads are a better choice. So if you are going to run the High Ports you need to take advantage of what it does best. His Jones cam is about what I run on iron HO heads that might flow 260cfm. So Its a good cam if you are running iron heads that do not flow. Think not ? I am running same MPH and better ETs with a car that is a couple hundred lbs lighter. Lower CR, smaller carb, more gear and more converter. Blank, its all about the 60 foot, every little bit of it. Get that down first and go from there. You MUST get that car moving out of the hole to let those High Ports do their job, even if you are choking them off with that cam. Your engine is simply not powerful enough to make up for a poor 60 foot. If you get your 60 foots down then find the proper cam you are mid 10s or better all day long baby. Question, why did David Bishop tell me I am going to need a .750 lift cam to make the heads work ?? Now, small block Fords and nitrous does not relate to what we are doing here so who cares ? |
#100
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Closed Thread |
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