[Formulajones]

Speaking of Colorado, the fellow I'm building this Firebird for, used to race dirt modifieds, (I may not have the class name right) and he was from that area at one time I believe and raced all over Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona etc...
He had mentioned to me in the past he used to have an outfit in Colorado do his engine work, albeit SBC stuff of course for that type of racing, but he mentioned how good the work was and the excellent power those engines made. I don't remember the name but I could ask John the name of the shop if interested.

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

There are reputable shops around most areas. It helps tremendously to get out to car events, cruises, and hang around like minded people. The dragstrip is the best place, and just see who is using who.

Exactly. I’m wasn’t saying take it to Joe Blows’ shop because it’s 10 minutes away. If you hang around the right places it’s not hard to find the right people. They can also steer you clear of places to avoid. The internet is ok for gathering info, but I know of a well known internet “guru” that payed hush money to keep shoddy work quiet.

I guess I’m lucky that there are at least 6 shops within 3 hours of here that are more than capable of machining,building,dyno testing a very stout street/strip Pontiac and most of them don’t have websites or post on forums. We’re much more fortunate than the Buick/Olds group, those guys are out there too but not in the same numbers.

The thing is they are mostly older guys and a lot of them won’t be around in 10 years. That’s probably true of most shops today.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Speaking of Colorado, the fellow I'm building this Firebird for, used to race dirt modifieds, (I may not have the class name right) and he was from that area at one time I believe and raced all over Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona etc...
He had mentioned to me in the past he used to have an outfit in Colorado do his engine work, albeit SBC stuff of course for that type of racing, but he mentioned how good the work was and the excellent power those engines made. I don't remember the name but I could ask John the name of the shop if interested.

GAM (Greeley Automotive Machine) at least at one time was big into circle track stuff. Bruce Yackey is the owner and is in the Colorado Motorsports Hall of Fame.

Possible it was him.

They don't have the greatest reputation, but I do know a couple people that have had engines built by them and none went kaboom or anything like that.

My engine is a bit of a mystery as it was built several months prior to my purchase of the car. The short block is the same, but I removed the heads and cam (#62's with a 280H) in favor of something that would live on pump gas.

The last time I spoke with GAM inquiring about pricing to have the short block rebuilt with forged rods and crank, the guy I talked to spent more time just telling me I should get rid of the 3.73's and go to a 3.08. There's reasons I want/need to get rid of the factory rods and crank, but this guy didn't really seem to care. I'm sure he was just trying to "save me some money." but it soured me on them for sure.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

Exactly. I’m wasn’t saying take it to Joe Blows’ shop because it’s 10 minutes away. If you hang around the right places it’s not hard to find the right people. They can also steer you clear of places to avoid. The internet is ok for gathering info, but I know of a well known internet “guru” that payed hush money to keep shoddy work quiet.

I guess I’m lucky that there are at least 6 shops within 3 hours of here that are more than capable of machining,building,dyno testing a very stout street/strip Pontiac and most of them don’t have websites or post on forums. We’re much more fortunate than the Buick/Olds group, those guys are out there too but not in the same numbers.

The thing is they are mostly older guys and a lot of them won’t be around in 10 years. That’s probably true of most shops today.

I totally agree. I don't feel the internet is the best place. Lots of key board hero's. I've always felt in person, around the right people in the right places is best. It's why I like the dragstrip so much. No key board hero's there. It's where you put your money where your mouth is. If you spend enough time there, you figure out the regulars, who runs what, and which cars run hard on a regular basis.

[1_Wild_Cat]

There is something to be said for walking into a place and looking at the shop set-up and speaking to somebody in person. Standing in their shop you can see what engines they are lined up to do, the age/quality of the machines, whether everything is clean, etc. A long distance reputation is great - and I've made some distance purchases from brand specialists (Buick stuff - you guys think Pontiac performance is tough to find) - but I really like shaking hands with person taking my money and getting a sense of them and their business.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

Exactly. I’m wasn’t saying take it to Joe Blows’ shop because it’s 10 minutes away. If you hang around the right places it’s not hard to find the right people. They can also steer you clear of places to avoid. The internet is ok for gathering info, but I know of a well known internet “guru” that payed hush money to keep shoddy work quiet.

I guess I’m lucky that there are at least 6 shops within 3 hours of here that are more than capable of machining,building,dyno testing a very stout street/strip Pontiac and most of them don’t have websites or post on forums. We’re much more fortunate than the Buick/Olds group, those guys are out there too but not in the same numbers.

The thing is they are mostly older guys and a lot of them won’t be around in 10 years. That’s probably true of most shops today.

And lets not forget about the shops who post on forums that have shill posters playing up what great work they do. I know one builder in particular that me and 2 other guys caught and called out on another forum. May even be the same guy you are referring to.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

GAM (Greeley Automotive Machine) at least at one time was big into circle track stuff. Bruce Yackey is the owner and is in the Colorado Motorsports Hall of Fame.

Possible it was him.

They don't have the greatest reputation, but I do know a couple people that have had engines built by them and none went kaboom or anything like that.

My engine is a bit of a mystery as it was built several months prior to my purchase of the car. The short block is the same, but I removed the heads and cam (#62's with a 280H) in favor of something that would live on pump gas.

The last time I spoke with GAM inquiring about pricing to have the short block rebuilt with forged rods and crank, the guy I talked to spent more time just telling me I should get rid of the 3.73's and go to a 3.08. There's reasons I want/need to get rid of the factory rods and crank, but this guy didn't really seem to care. I'm sure he was just trying to "save me some money." but it soured me on them for sure.

I asked John, Robby McCabe was his engine guy out of Colorado Springs. Builds a lot of asphalt late model engines and stuff for the Denver track racers in late model and super stock, also built a lot of GM stuff for the Pikes Peak racers. John likes him and never had an issue with their engines. John got out of racing a few years back but believes the name of the shop was McCabe Motorsports.

[Va68goat]

No way would I ever go with a long distance build...ever. The builder might be great but it's expensive to send parts etc. If something goes wrong when you get the motor, the distance is a deal breaker. Though Paul came to Virginia to address the problem, it took almost two years to make that happen. I would get some work done a few hours away from the house but I will never do this again. If Paul was closer to me, I would consider it.

[promptcritical]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

GAM (Greeley Automotive Machine) at least at one time was big into circle track stuff. Bruce Yackey is the owner and is in the Colorado Motorsports Hall of Fame.

Possible it was him.

They don't have the greatest reputation, but I do know a couple people that have had engines built by them and none went kaboom or anything like that.

My engine is a bit of a mystery as it was built several months prior to my purchase of the car. The short block is the same, but I removed the heads and cam (#62's with a 280H) in favor of something that would live on pump gas.

The last time I spoke with GAM inquiring about pricing to have the short block rebuilt with forged rods and crank, the guy I talked to spent more time just telling me I should get rid of the 3.73's and go to a 3.08. There's reasons I want/need to get rid of the factory rods and crank, but this guy didn't really seem to care. I'm sure he was just trying to "save me some money." but it soured me on them for sure.

Bruce Yackey is still around CNS and is fast. He’s always been fast. I think his kid is running fast too. Bruce ran second to Jerry Robertson’s kid (Darren I think is his name). I didn’t know he was a motor builder. He builds fast cars. That’s a pretty strong late model division. Robby McCabe built a lot of motors up, that way and a lot of the old USLMA touring division motors. Mostly SB Chevy stuff....pretty serious motors. Never saw anything he did except for those types of motors. We never had a problem power wise or with dependability. The dirt late model motors we built in Albuquerque. So back to the thread, we used kind of a remote builder (6 hours or so) on purpose to get a guy we liked to work with with a good reputation.

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

And lets not forget about the shops who post on forums that have shill posters playing up what great work they do.

That’s why I don’t pay a lot of mind to forum, Facebook, Yelp, etc. reviews. If a guy/girl in a basement in Russia can hack your bank account how hard is it to falsely build, or ruin, a reputation on line?

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

So..... A "local" guy can't make a mistake, screw things up or get defective parts? Don't kid yourself, go where you know they know what they are doing and have a good track record. Even the pros can have a F-up. Just watch any major NHRA event. And those guys are unequivocally the best of the best.

When I mentioned local, I followed it up within a "days drive" which to me is anywhere from 8 to 15 hours of driving to a reputable shop/builder. Never said local guys can't screw things up, you did. It's easier to work with someone you can meet up with face to face than someone on the other side of the country which has been stated already.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by 68 461 Bird

When I mentioned local, I followed it up within a "days drive" which to me is anywhere from 8 to 15 hours of driving to a reputable shop/builder. Never said local guys can't screw things up, you did. It's easier to work with someone you can meet up with face to face than someone on the other side of the country which has been stated already.

It was a general statement. Don't take it personal unless you're guilty of something. Like I said, even the pros have hiccups. The difference is that you can deal with a guy 1000 miles away that knows his s hit when it comes to building engines, especially Pontiacs, or you can deal with a guy 10 miles away that works on dirt cars and says, "I always wanted to build one of those Pontiacs". The difference is that you will have a better chance at a fail with the guy 10 miles away.

[68 461 Bird]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

It was a general statement. Don't take it personal unless you're guilty of something. Like I said, even the pros have hiccups. The difference is that you can deal with a guy 1000 miles away that knows his s hit when it comes to building engines, especially Pontiacs, or you can deal with a guy 10 miles away that works on dirt cars and says, "I always wanted to build one of those Pontiacs". The difference is that you will have a better chance at a fail with the guy 10 miles away.

Sorry, it looked like it was directed at me since it was right after mine. I usually agree with you as I do with you on this topic.

[Chief of the 60's]

Here are 2 cases of mine.

I am fortunate to have had 2 NHRA/IHRA pros not far from me. Contrary to what most might think, just because they are famous does not make their prices out of touch for the common man. So, one of my engines was done by one of them.

When it came to the transmission I spent about a year researching and found no one locally (or within 200 miles) that I felt had the knowledge to build what I required or that I could trust. So, I was going to deal with a shop that was about 450 miles away until I talked with another well known shop that was about 2000 miles away. I went with the shop that was about 2000 miles away.

So, I found 1 shop within 25 miles of me in one case and another about 2000 miles away in the other all based on doing my homework regardless of location. The end result is that that drivetrain has been going strong, problem free and running high 10's, low 11's since 2010.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Contrary to what most might think, just because they are famous does not make their prices out of touch for the common man.

That is an important point. I always figured Tony Bischoff would be fairly expensive considering all his success and popularity. But when dad went over there with his build and they priced things out, he found that Tony really wasn't any more expensive on machine work and labor than other shops we've used in the past. Based on what we knew of a few other shops around the area it made the decision pretty easy.

[NeighborsComplaint]

What all this comes down to is your confidence that luck will be on your side when you install the engine and fire it up. If all goes well, the builder 2000 miles away was a good choice. If it all goes badly, it was a bad choice. All you have is the reputation of the builder to base your decision on.

All things considered equal, it will always be easier and cheaper to find a remedy to a problem with a nearby builder. I say all things considered equal because either one can tell you to go pound sand when an issue arises. The local builder will be more responsive to a remedy because he relies on his reputation with the local automotive community as his main source of income. The potential for loss of reputation with his bread and butter and the ease with which local small claims court can be utilized for a judgement weigh on a local shop's willingness to remedy a problem.

[melemans]

For me, I had no problem taking my engine to Paul Carter. His reputation is still excellent in my opinion. I understand that mistakes cost money and time and that's unfortunate. We all mistakes....we just expect no mistakes be made on our stuff.

[NeighborsComplaint]

When a mistake can potentially cost thousands of dollars, it is incumbant upon the buyer to select a qualified shop and obtain a written guarantee of remedy. There is a big difference between the guy down the street telling you to "bring it back and I'll make it right" vs the guy 2,000 miles away telling you the same. This doesn't make one builder better than the other, it just gives one builder the advantage of proximity should an issue develop.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by melemans

We all mistakes....we just expect no mistakes be made on our stuff.

Amen! Everyone makes mistakes accept for most the folks on the Internet....they are all perfect.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Amen! Everyone makes mistakes accept for most the folks on the Internet....they are all perfect.

Man-o-man, I'm glad none of those goobers post here!!