[Hitman]

I've got a challenger. Great car and it rides nice and heavy too. I guess that is what makes them mind boggling is how they can get that heavy car down the track so fast. It just didn't look like one but I didn't see the times nor the Hellcat badge or hood but my screen is not great. I watched a few hellcats run down the track on Powertour last year and talked with the owner of one. I have some video somewhere. Seeing all these hellcat killers make me come back to one thing. Not one is off the showroom floor factory warrantied.

[J GLASGO]

Apples and oranges comparism. If you have not rode in a Hellcat, it is Bad Ass. Sad truth is in as produced condition, no Pontiac could run with a Scat Pack off the showroom floor,forget about the Hellcat. Now I am not getting rid of any of my Indians to buy a Hellcat,but I seriously thought about it.

[wheneaglesfly]

I think one of Mickey Thompson's SD421 Cars could take on a Hellcat and win.
Especially his SD421 Tempest.

Then there is that SD421 1963 Tempest that wss converted to a Solid axle rear with 1957 Pontiac 9.3 Rear & '57 Full size car leaf springs.
Really launch that Tempest hard at 5,000 RPM.

And I think a Ram Air II & Ram Air 4. Bird & GTO Give the Hellcat a run for its money.
100% Stock & super tuned.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by Dennis H.

Hmmm, Stock 79 TA in street trim versus Challenger 5.7 hemi, SRT, or Hellcat in street trim= No contest, would be a complete laugher. Warmed over TA compared to a stock Challenger Hemi, SRT, or Hellcat, yea could happen but what is the point.

My point was the Hellcow is using a supercharger to add the power, and the Pontiac isn't. That is the point.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

Apples and oranges comparism. If you have not rode in a Hellcat, it is Bad Ass. Sad truth is in as produced condition, no Pontiac could run with a Scat Pack off the showroom floor,forget about the Hellcat. Now I am not getting rid of any of my Indians to buy a Hellcat,but I seriously thought about it.

I don't care how fast they are. I would rather walk down the street carrying an old Pontiac hubcap than drive a Dodge.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by wheneaglesfly

I think one of Mickey Thompson's SD421 Cars could take on a Hellcat and win.
Especially his SD421 Tempest.

Then there is that SD421 1963 Tempest that wss converted to a Solid axle rear with 1957 Pontiac 9.3 Rear & '57 Full size car leaf springs.
Really launch that Tempest hard at 5,000 RPM.

And I think a Ram Air II & Ram Air 4. Bird & GTO Give the Hellcat a run for its money.
100% Stock & super tuned.

How about Nunzi's 4 cylinder Tempest???

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by goatwgn

How about Nunzi's 4 cylinder Tempest???

Oh Yeah.
Your Right.
Forgot about Nunzi.
His 4Cyl Tempest is Bad Azz Fast.

Knock the Dicks off those Hellcats.

[J GLASGO]

Originally Posted by goatwgn

I don't care how fast they are. I would rather walk down the street carrying an old Pontiac hubcap than drive a Dodge.

Haha! Used to think the same way. When I drive or race my Pontiacs, it takes me to a better time and place. New cars don't have that. I respect how much everyone on here loves there Pontiacs. I do to. I guess technology has somewhat changed my thought process. As far as a ra2 or 4 beating a hellcat ,that's not even a fair race. A good ra4,and I mean Good,(nhra comp) is about 380-390 HP as t wheels,hc is about 640. Let's say if a hellcat pulls up next to my Ra Gto,or SD bird,i ain't racing.

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

Haha! Used to think the same way. When I drive or race my Pontiacs, it takes me to a better time and place. New cars don't have that. I respect how much everyone on here loves there Pontiacs. I do to. I guess technology has somewhat changed my thought process. As far as a ra2 or 4 beating a hellcat ,that's not even a fair race. A good ra4,and I mean Good,(nhra comp) is about 380-390 HP as t wheels,hc is about 640. Let's say if a hellcat pulls up next to my Ra Gto,or SD bird,i ain't racing.

I see what Your saying.
Your forgetting about Gearing advantages the Hellcat does not have stock.

Most of the Record setting Pontiacs used 3.90, 4.30, 4.33 , 4.56, 4.88 , & 5.13 gears.

Streetable gearing ?
MMost would not say so today.

[wheneaglesfly]

Many of us can't afford IA2 Blocks.
Billet crankshafts.
Custom sheet metal intakes.
495-505-525+cubes.

Stuck with 350, 389,421, 428, 400, 455 factory iron.
.
Love to do a 4L80 E trans in my 1963 Grand Prix.
A Race level Lockup torque converter is $2,000-$5000 cash.
Even a stock replacement is $600-850.

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by wheneaglesfly

Many of us can't afford IA2 Blocks.
Billet crankshafts.
Custom sheet metal intakes.
495-505-525+cubes.

Stuck with 350, 389,421, 428, 400, 455 factory iron.
.
Love to do a 4L80 E trans in my 1963 Grand Prix.
A Race level Lockup torque converter is $2,000-$5000 cash.
Even a stock replacement is $600-850.

From Butler Performance - Factory Pontiac Blocks are good to 700 -800 hp then they recommend the IA II Blocks etc. no need for this LS Stuff

[wheneaglesfly]

Originally Posted by Wareagle

From Butler Performance - Factory Pontiac Blocks are good to 700 -800 hp then they recommend the IA II Blocks etc. no need for this LS Stuff

Factory LS is no better than Factory Pontiac iron.
I am referring to C5 & C6 Corvette engines .
ZO6 with Aluminium block & Heads & Titanium connecting rods.
I worked in a Race ship last year and the customers supercharged ZO6 Corvette went Bang in a bad way on Chicago expressways.
Dart NSX block to replace was $5,000 cash.
Oil pump was a special Billet part.
$900 cash.
A $18,000 cash engine build not including labor.
C5-C7 Corvettes are a REAL PIA To put back together.

Lift required .

[wheneaglesfly]

Should not ignore LS & X.
If Pontiac Motors was around still LSX Would be used.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by wheneaglesfly

Factory LS is no better than Factory Pontiac iron.
I am referring to C5 & C6 Corvette engines .
ZO6 with Aluminium block & Heads & Titanium connecting rods.
I worked in a Race ship last year and the customers supercharged ZO6 Corvette went Bang in a bad way on Chicago expressways.
Dart NSX block to replace was $5,000 cash.
Oil pump was a special Billet part.
$900 cash.
A $18,000 cash engine build not including labor.
C5-C7 Corvettes are a REAL PIA To put back together.

Lift required .

I work in an independent shop that services all makes. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I don't care for the "displacement on demand" feature of some of the later "LS" style engines. Have seen more than one have a "switching" lifter collapse and cause it to run off 7 cylinders and wash the remaining one down in fuel. Have to pull heads on LS engines (and late model "Hemis") to change lifters. Have seen roller wheels lock up on a few of both, wiping out the cam and the engine with it. Have also seen the steel valve seats drop out of the aluminum heads on "Hemis" and take the engine with it. After all this time, they develop an engine that is overall pretty good, then ruin it with one or two potential drawbacks.

[J GLASGO]

No fan of dod. I disable on all my 5.3 trucks . Luckily the 392 manuals don't have this.

[i82much]

Disclaimer - I am not a racer. That said, I believe anyone here can beat a hellcat with their classic pontiac for fairly cheap. Just visit the boosted section and build a mild boosted combo, then visit the race section and learn a bit about getting the car to hook. Not "cheap" compared to a stock build, but with a factory block, forged crank, rods, pistons, factory heads, and a procharger or a turbo I would think it would not cost more than, say, 10-15 grand in the engine. Another 15 grand for a decent mid-70's F body, a ford 9 and a good transmission, maybe 40 grand you could beat one and have a nice old pontiac?

I think if you want to beat it N/A you are getting close to looking at an aftermarket block or having a not very streetable combo. I wonder how Steve C's 505 car would do against a hellcat?

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by i82much

Disclaimer - I am not a racer. That said, I believe anyone here can beat a hellcat with their classic pontiac for fairly cheap. Just visit the boosted section and build a mild boosted combo, then visit the race section and learn a bit about getting the car to hook. Not "cheap" compared to a stock build, but with a factory block, forged crank, rods, pistons, factory heads, and a procharger or a turbo I would think it would not cost more than, say, 10-15 grand in the engine. Another 15 grand for a decent mid-70's F body, a ford 9 and a good transmission, maybe 40 grand you could beat one and have a nice old pontiac?

I think if you want to beat it N/A you are getting close to looking at an aftermarket block or having a not very streetable combo. I wonder how Steve C's 505 car would do against a hellcat?

Then get in it and drive it everyday in all the seasons with the climate control on in rush hour traffic both ways. Then if something breaks take that old Pontiac with all that stuff to the dealership and hand them the keys and jump in your loaner and go to work and let them do the work. And lets hope you don't get into a accident. We've all seen the old impala vs new malibu crash test video. Again, apples to oranges with any of these old car vs Hellcat topics. Modern muscle is a really cool way to combine daily driver and hobby car. Well, a '69 GTO was modern muscle back then. It has all come around. Embrace it cause I feel it will go away soon too.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Then get in it and drive it everyday in all the seasons with the climate control on in rush hour traffic both ways. Then if something breaks take that old Pontiac with all that stuff to the dealership and hand them the keys and jump in your loaner and go to work and let them do the work. And lets hope you don't get into a accident. We've all seen the old impala vs new malibu crash test video. Again, apples to oranges with any of these old car vs Hellcat topics. Modern muscle is a really cool way to combine daily driver and hobby car. Well, a '69 GTO was modern muscle back then. It has all come around. Embrace it cause I feel it will go away soon too.

Then build it right and don't wreck. I have no interest in modern cars.

[wheneaglesfly]

Lol.

The Hellcats do have a weak link.
Its The Independent rear supension rear Diff.
Numerous reports of them blowing up.
Warranty repairs yet likely .

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by i82much

Then build it right and don't wreck. I have no interest in modern cars.

No, that's fine. Yes you can build it right, you have zero control over if you have a accident or not.

My whole thing is there are good people out there that want to have a fast car, want to drag race or autocross but they cannot build a old car so the modern muscle is perfect for that person. The hobby should not be inclusive of a car strictly because of it's age. I'd love to have a older hotrod that had all the safety and convenience of the old stuff. I guess I've just been conditioned to the new stuff cause of my daily drivers and work vehicles.