[jimmo]

Originally Posted by russosborne

Just to update, the CS 130 alternator I got does rotate the same as the stock Pontiac one. It can just be bolted on in the stock location, but I will have to space it away from the engine to get the pulleys lined up. Not sure how much yet, but looks like between 1 and 2 inches.

Unfortunately I just realised after going back and re-reading this whole thread that I do have the wrong water pump pulley. The one I have would cause the pump to rotate the other direction. It is smooth, not grooved. I just need to start looking for the correct 85 Taurus one.

Russ

If you were going by the smooth waterpump pulley to determine the space you need for the alt, its probably gonna be different with the right pulley. Should be around just under an inch. If you are runnin power steering you will see why I only spaced it 5/8" and took up the rest of the slack by changing the pulley. If you are not running power steering it will be a piece of cake.

Its not from a Taurus, its from a crown victoria. I think some lincolns have them too. I just bought a couple and discovered there are two sizes so be careful which one you choose. one has the 17.5" circumference like the one I documented in this thread and the other has the 18.5" circumference which will slow the waterpump down just a tad.
I actually changed the one on my car to the larger circumference to gain more belt contact when I added the ac because adding the ac caused less waterpump contact. Long story short, my car runs the same temp as before.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by russosborne

Jimmo,
Would you mind sharing this easier way?

Thanks,
Russ

Here is a photo of the ac bracket before I milled it. The only reason I milled it is because I wanted to use a 1" thick aluminum bracket in the photo in the previous post. The unmodified ac bracket only needs to be spaced 1/4" off the head to line up the pulley. In hindsight Im sure a 1/4" steel plate would have worked. With the steel plate ya dont have enough meat to drill and thread for bolts but one could drill, tap and install studs with red loc-tite. I think its still a tough bracket to make but if ya have patience and a good jig saw it can be done. Then ya dont need to mill the ac bracket.
The only thing I dont think I posted a pic of yet is the new idler which is now located on the lower right side of the waterpump pulley. I think I posted a vid of an early mock up in a previous post. Ill have to check for that. If not you'll see it soon here.

[AROWHED]

Hit the junkyard this morning...got the 302 crank pulley, GM power steering pump and pulley. Got the VW alternator pulley coming in on Ebay. That Crown Vic water pump pulley may be a tough one though, anyone know the application years range on it?

[HWYSTR455]

Couple things I'd like to mention that might help some of you:

I just went through a rash of no less than 9 CS-130 alts, ranging from parts store rebuilds all the way to Delco new units & aftermarket customs, all had bearing failures within a very short period of time. Seems either the cases are boogered (alignment of shaft in bearing) from rebuilds or the bearing source is bad. I called a bunch of places talking about this issue, and yes, new belts, and tension was correct. One place (PowerMaster) commented on when a belt slips, it super-heats the shaft, and cooks the grease out of the bearings. Word of caution. I switched to a 12Si custom from PowerMaster, problem solved.

The CS-144 is physically larger in the body, and may contact some adjustment arms/brackets. Otherwise they are a great alternative to the 10/12Si. One benefit of the CS series is that it has a clean output, compatible with late model electronics, like EFi conversions.

Another point - consider switching to a type II PS pump, it is smaller, easier mounting, can have the same output pressure, and give a couple of other options like remote tanks, etc.

.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Hit the junkyard this morning...got the 302 crank pulley, GM power steering pump and pulley. Got the VW alternator pulley coming in on Ebay. That Crown Vic water pump pulley may be a tough one though, anyone know the application years range on it?

I know Ive seen them all all the larger lincolns and mercurys as well, all in the mid 80s. They do come in 2 different diameters. There were quite a few at the yard I go to. If ya cant find one, I do have a couple already drilled for pontiac for sale.just pm me if ya need.

[AROWHED]

Jimmo, sent you a PM.

[AROWHED]

OK I got Jimmo's system going on my 65 Grand Prix. Since it has a 455, it was no big deal to change to 70's style power steering and alternator brackets, and ditch the 65 stuff, except the AC compressor, which is still on the one and only remaining V-belt. Jimmo did his homework on this setup...it is SO much easier to deal with than the V-belts. You can remove the serpentine belt in one minute, or the entire alternator in about 3.
I picked up a rebuilt 95 Chevy half-ton PS pump and new serp pulley from Autozone. Jimmo got me all the spacers\bolts required and the Crown Vic water pump pulley. Did not take long to install, and it works great...very smooth. I did have to monkey with a couple different belt lengths but that was no big deal...ended up using a Gates part that is a hair over 60". Setting belt tension is a snap. Car should be at Norwalk if you'd like to see the system running this weekend...faded red 65 Grand Prix running street class. Heres a pic before I reinstalled the fan, and since this pic I have also swapped in a rebuilt 12SI alternator with no problems.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

OK I got Jimmo's system going on my 65 Grand Prix. Since it has a 455, it was no big deal to change to 70's style power steering and alternator brackets, and ditch the 65 stuff, except the AC compressor, which is still on the one and only remaining V-belt. Jimmo did his homework on this setup...it is SO much easier to deal with than the V-belts. You can remove the serpentine belt in one minute, or the entire alternator in about 3.
I picked up a rebuilt 95 Chevy half-ton PS pump and new serp pulley from Autozone. Jimmo got me all the spacers\bolts required and the Crown Vic water pump pulley. Did not take long to install, and it works great...very smooth. I did have to monkey with a couple different belt lengths but that was no big deal...ended up using a Gates part that is a hair over 60". Setting belt tension is a snap. Car should be at Norwalk if you'd like to see the system running this weekend...faded red 65 Grand Prix running street class. Heres a pic before I reinstalled the fan, and since this pic I have also swapped in a rebuilt 12SI alternator with no problems.

Thanks for the kind words Arowhed. Im hoping to have time tonight to post the pics and details of the ac tie-in. It was a lil bit of a pain but turned out great and just as smooth.

[quicksilver97ta]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

OK I got Jimmo's system going on my 65 Grand Prix. Since it has a 455, it was no big deal to change to 70's style power steering and alternator brackets, and ditch the 65 stuff, except the AC compressor, which is still on the one and only remaining V-belt. Jimmo did his homework on this setup...it is SO much easier to deal with than the V-belts. You can remove the serpentine belt in one minute, or the entire alternator in about 3.
I picked up a rebuilt 95 Chevy half-ton PS pump and new serp pulley from Autozone. Jimmo got me all the spacers\bolts required and the Crown Vic water pump pulley. Did not take long to install, and it works great...very smooth. I did have to monkey with a couple different belt lengths but that was no big deal...ended up using a Gates part that is a hair over 60". Setting belt tension is a snap. Car should be at Norwalk if you'd like to see the system running this weekend...faded red 65 Grand Prix running street class. Heres a pic before I reinstalled the fan, and since this pic I have also swapped in a rebuilt 12SI alternator with no problems.

Looks great!

[AROWHED]

Jim, one thing I was wondering...does your AC setup have clearance enough to allow removing the long belt and replace it with the short belt to take the compressor off of the route, for racing?

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

OK I got Jimmo's system going on my 65 Grand Prix. Since it has a 455, it was no big deal to change to 70's style power steering and alternator brackets, and ditch the 65 stuff, except the AC compressor, which is still on the one and only remaining V-belt. Jimmo did his homework on this setup...it is SO much easier to deal with than the V-belts. You can remove the serpentine belt in one minute, or the entire alternator in about 3.
I picked up a rebuilt 95 Chevy half-ton PS pump and new serp pulley from Autozone. Jimmo got me all the spacers\bolts required and the Crown Vic water pump pulley. Did not take long to install, and it works great...very smooth. I did have to monkey with a couple different belt lengths but that was no big deal...ended up using a Gates part that is a hair over 60". Setting belt tension is a snap. Car should be at Norwalk if you'd like to see the system running this weekend...faded red 65 Grand Prix running street class. Heres a pic before I reinstalled the fan, and since this pic I have also swapped in a rebuilt 12SI alternator with no problems.

Any difference in water temps?

What is the application for the 12si?

And, I think it is smart to run the a/c on its own belt.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Jim, one thing I was wondering...does your AC setup have clearance enough to allow removing the long belt and replace it with the short belt to take the compressor off of the route, for racing?

Of coarse, I wouldnt have it any other way
The only downside is the belt you already bought will be useless unless you want to move the idler each time. With the ac the belt is 89" and bypassing the ac but routing it the same way the belt needs to be 71" give or take some.
It would be a good idea to carry that anyway in case ya had compressor trouble.

[jimmo]

Okay, the ac has been done for a while now and has some miles on it with no trouble so here is how I did it. This is a little more than just a DIY, more of a PITA. It was just a little difficult to come up with a way to mount the idler and tensioner because the old pontiac engine doesnt have a bunch of threaded holes in the front like newer engines do. All the parts I used for the 1st conversion remain the same. I only had to relocate the idler to get more belt contact on the water pump.
Here is a list of all the parts I used in adding the AC to the serpentine system.

1 AC bracket gm part# 14102584 from 88-92 camaro or firebird with v6
1Serpentine belt tensioner 93-97 camaro with 5.7 ltr engine. Dayco # 89232, gates 38145
1 AC bracket adapter. This is the 1” thick aluminum plate with 4 smooth holes and 2 threaded holes. (In hindsight, making this from 1/4” steel plate would have made other parts of the job easier and may have looked better overall)
1 Solid link for tensioner- made from 1” bar stock
1 Idler bracket- cut from 1/2” aluminum plate. Used to locate the idler just below the water pump pulley.
1 Idler spacer- used to fit the idler pulley to the idler bracket.
1 3/8x3/8 spacer located between the ac bracket and adapter( If 1/4” plate was used as mentioned above this spacer would need to be 1-1/8” long instead of 3/8”)
1 3/8x1/2 spacer located between the link and tensioner
1 3/8x27/32 spacer between idler bracket and alternator bracket
1 5/16x1-21/32 spacer between idler and water pump
3 3/8x1-1/2 bolts to fasten ac adapter to cyl head
2 10mmx20mm bolts to fasten idler bracket to alternator bracket from behind
2 3/8x4 bolts – 1center ac bracket, through adapter and into head, 2nd one goes through the link, through ac bracket and into adapter.
1 3/8x3 bolt through ac bracket into adapter.
1 3/8x5-1/2 bolt through idler bracket, spacer, alternator bracket, spacer, water pump, timing cover and threaded into block.

[jimmo]

Note the missing fasteners in the water pump photo. These will need spacers to accommodate the new brackets.

[jimmo]

Pre-assembling the alternator and idler bracket made installation a little easier.

[jimmo]

Next, I installed the assembly with the correct spacers as seen in the photo.

[jimmo]

Next I bolted the adapter plate to the cyl head. The arrow points to the hole that uses a long bolt that runs through both the ac bracket and adapter and gets threaded into the head. The other two empty holes in the photo are threaded to fasten the ac bracket.

[jimmo]

The tensioner link gets bolted through the hole with the arrow in the photo below. Also, the compressors needs to be pre-installed in the bracket prior to bolting it to the head. This is beacause the compressor bolts are inserted from behind and the valve covers interfere. I left the compressor out just for the photo.

[jimmo]

Next, I installed the tensioner with the correct spacers.

[jimmo]

Here it is with the belt.

And here is a link to a video of me installing the belt.
http://contour.com/stories/file0024--254