[Ram Air I]

fbirdinconcord if I had the money right now I would be on my way to get your 69. Mine needs a companion. Unfortunately, my business is sloooww. :-(

[Ram Air I]

The Image is a dealer order for a 69 T/A. This was one of the 3 we sold new. The dealer filled this out in duplicate and sent one to Pontiac and kept one for their records.

[fbirdinconcord]

Originally Posted by Ram Air I

I am not sure why you could not find us. Hardin Motors still exists. We are no longer a Pontiac dealer. My father sold the franchise in '94. But, the business became a used car dealership. He passed away in '98 and I became the owner. I googled the name and there we came up (along with Hardin Motors in Ohio which is a Chrysler dealership).
Shannon

I think the last time I checked for the dealership was around 2006 so I have no idea how I missed it. The sad part is I actually called the dealership in Ohio to see if they might somehow be related to the dealership this car came from. Go figure.

Thats incredible info you have posted from the dealership. I can't wait to call Steve tomorrow and tell him. That is so cool. Thank you

[Ram Air I]

I may (no promises) have a license plate frame from the era. I will have to dig through my collection. It will take me a while as my things are stored in several locations. My 68 still has the corroded original on it.

[Ram Air I]

Just one of the interesting things I have. An original window sticker from a 69 Judge. Note the sprocket holes on the left side of the paper. The side is perforated with very fine perforations. This one was never applied to a window. You can tell the ones that were by the water marks left upon removal. My assumption is they were printed on a large industrial printer and the sprocket hole strip was peeled off and the sticker moistened and applied to the glass. I dont remember where I got this one. In a file maybe??? Were they printed in duplicate and this was an extra in the car?? Replacement for lost damaged one? I have had it for years. When I came across something interesting I took it home.

BTW, fbirdinconcord do you have a scan of your ta sticker? I was wondering how the ta pkg was worded. I dont think I have ever seen an original 69 ta window sticker.

[Ram Air I]

This window sticker was applied to a car. You can tell by the damage done removing it. It came from a different dealer. It was probably a dealer trade.

I have removed dozens of window stickers. Many customers wanted to keep it. I got pretty good at getting them off with minimal damage. The key was to get it very wet with warm water and peel slowly.

[Ram Air I]

An ad for our dealership. I hope it is not too small to see.

Sorry I didnt mean to take over this thread. Probably should have started a new one.

[tajunkman]

ram air 1, Very cool stuff.

fbirdinconcord, I love the original owner pics. Its cool to hear that you and your kid have been enjoying it.






.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Ram Air I

An ad for our dealership. I hope it is not too small to see.

Sorry I didnt mean to take over this thread. Probably should have started a new one.

Ram Air - don't apologize.

However, I would ask that (in addition to posting here) you start a new thread and attach as many photos, ads and stories as you possibly can. I would love to see anything you feel comfortable sharing. I think there are folks outside the 67-69 Firebird Tech forum that would like to see it, too.

Thanks -

K

[blue71ta]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Ram Air - don't apologize.

However, I would ask that (in addition to posting here) you start a new thread and attach as many photos, ads and stories as you possibly can. I would love to see anything you feel comfortable sharing. I think there are folks outside the 67-69 Firebird Tech forum that would like to see it, too.

Thanks -

K

agreed, very cool stuff!

[blue71ta]

Originally Posted by fbirdinconcord

Unfortunately, the 70 T/A had to be sold to help purchase the 69 T/A. But the good news is it was bought by a good friend of mine that is only 15 minutes away. He is into the project pretty far now and is getting close to paint. I spent a fair amount of time over the years trying to come up with info on the dealership and any plate frames, etc. with no luck. If you can come up with any history we would love to have it.
Thank you,
Richie

Does your friend have any progress pics you could post of the '70? Would love to see some if you/he wouldn't mind?
Sorry to hijack the thread...

[fbirdinconcord]

Originally Posted by Ram Air I

An ad for our dealership. I hope it is not too small to see.

Sorry I didnt mean to take over this thread. Probably should have started a new one.

This has got to be the coolest thread hijack ever. Your welcome anytime.

I will get a scan of my window sticker tomorrow.

[fbirdinconcord]

Originally Posted by blue71ta

Does your friend have any progress pics you could post of the '70? Would love to see some if you/he wouldn't mind?
Sorry to hijack the thread...

I will check with him tomorrow after I tell him about the cool info Ram Air I came up with.

[fbirdinconcord]

Originally Posted by Ram Air I

Just one of the interesting things I have. An original window sticker from a 69 Judge. Note the sprocket holes on the left side of the paper. The side is perforated with very fine perforations. This one was never applied to a window. You can tell the ones that were by the water marks left upon removal. My assumption is they were printed on a large industrial printer and the sprocket hole strip was peeled off and the sticker moistened and applied to the glass. I dont remember where I got this one. In a file maybe??? Were they printed in duplicate and this was an extra in the car?? Replacement for lost damaged one? I have had it for years. When I came across something interesting I took it home.

BTW, fbirdinconcord do you have a scan of your ta sticker? I was wondering how the ta pkg was worded. I dont think I have ever seen an original 69 ta window sticker.

My scanner wasn't cooperating today so I took a few pics of my window sticker. The letters are very faint so I bumped the contrast some, still hard to read but the window sticker from PHS has the exact same wording and prices.

I talked to Steve today and he was very excited to hear what you found. He is going to send me a bunch of pics of the car in progress and I will start a new thread. He just dropped it off for paint on Saturday.

[Transamric]

Thanks guys, for posting all the great original paperwork pics. Sometimes I think I go more nuts over nice original paperwork, than the cars themselves!! Well,...almost.

[Ram Air I]

Originally Posted by fbirdinconcord

My scanner wasn't cooperating today so I took a few pics of my window sticker. The letters are very faint so I bumped the contrast some, still hard to read but the window sticker from PHS has the exact same wording and prices.

I talked to Steve today and he was very excited to hear what you found. He is going to send me a bunch of pics of the car in progress and I will start a new thread. He just dropped it off for paint on Saturday.

Thanks for posting the TA window label. I noticed that the shipping charge was much more than that of the 69 Judge I posted. Maybe this was due to different carrier's contract prices. I was aware that Pontiac (maybe all of GM) used to charge based on distance from the plant. Enough dealers complained of the "unfair advantage" those located physically close to the plants had that they eventually changed the destination charges to be the same for all dealers regardless of their location.

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable than I can provide insight on this shipping charge.

I also found it odd that the H.O. engine price was broken out of the TA option. On the invoice for my 69 TA it was one option and one price. Incidentally, on a Firebird 400, the H.O. (option code 348) was the same engine as the ram air 3. To make it what we call a ram air 3 one had to order the 348 H.O. and code 611 (hood ram air inlet) together. For a ram air 4 engine the 611 was included. See the ta order form I posted earlier and you can find the 348 and 611 as separate options!

I cant wait to see the progress on the '70!

[Kurt S]

The WS for the 69 Judge is a reprint. Notice the VIN is typed out, not stamped.
Probably for a dealer transfer car.
I've looked at the shipping charges on Camaros. They vary by proximity to Detroit and there may have been different rates for higher volume dealers. At least something cause some variation between dealers in close proximity.

[Ram Air I]

Originally Posted by Kurt S

The WS for the 69 Judge is a reprint. Notice the VIN is typed out, not stamped.
Probably for a dealer transfer car.
I've looked at the shipping charges on Camaros. They vary by proximity to Detroit and there may have been different rates for higher volume dealers. At least something cause some variation between dealers in close proximity.

If you mean reprinted by Pontiac for a lost/damaged one I would not disagree. However, if you are indicating that it is aftermarket such as PHS I will guarantee you it is not. It came from the files of our dealership. I have had it many many years. I have other ws that our dealership added to with typewriter. See the attached file. I believe this to be a zone car. The dealer name and the note at the bottom are added. The rest is from Pontiac.

[Kurt S]

That's what the dealer tranfer car statement was about. Probably came in from another dealer and they reprinted the WS, back in 69.
I assume the zone would just request this. Not sure if the plant or PMD kicked out the reprint. I know the plant still had the info on file.

I also sent you an email.

[John V.]

Kurt, I don't have a lot of original Window Sticker records, but I think I know what you meant about "typed out, not stamped". However, I think your assumption is based on F body Window Stickers, leastways judging from a '69 Van Nuys W.S. record that I have.

That format seems to have been Plant specific. I have a jpeg of an Arlington built '69 Judge original (not repro) W.S. The VIN is uniformly typed.

I remember when the shipping charge policy was changed. Not vividly, just recall that it happened and was in the news. My vague recollection was that this was done by law. I actually seem to recall it a bit differently. That is, the shipping charges were always figured from Detroit. But the cars were built in a lot of different places. If I am correct, the court case forced them to charge based on where the car was produced. That way if the car was built at a Plant close to the Dealer, he wasn't getting screwed by paying as if it came from Detroit, while the Detroit area dealers paid little, even when the car was built at a distance from them.

I probably have this mixed up, but the point is, I seem to recall that it took a court case or some legislation to induce the automakers to change how they invoiced the shipping charges. If I had to guess, this happened in the early '70s.

The Bonneville convert definitely came from the Zone as evidenced by the 09991 code on the W.S. I bet the PHS Invoice record would reflect this car sold at a discount, etc., etc. and would show the Ship To "Dealer" as 09 991 with the car selling at a discount to Hardin.

I suspect this W.S. is indicative of cars that were put in service by the Zone office, the W.S. retained (off the car) and then supplied to the purchasing dealer when it was removed from company service and sold. Notice, Hardin Motors was typed in on this Window Sticker.

For the typical Zone Stock inventory car, I suspect the W.S. remained on the vehicle. The W.S. will have the Zone Stock location on it (such as 09 991 or 26 993, etc.) but there will NOT be a Dealer Name on the Window Sticker, since the purchasing Dealer was unknown when the car was built and the W.S. put on the glass.

The Judge W.S. posted here has Hardin's name on it, same font as the rest. Had this been a Zone car (Stock or Company Car), it would not have Hardin's name preprinted on the document.

It is also not a Dealer Trade car. Look along the bottom edge. Hardin's Dealer No. appears there (09 249). Had this been a Zone car the Zone location would have been identified (09 991 or 09 992, etc.) or it was a Dealer Trade, the original ordering Dealer's No. would be indicated here (and his Dealer Name preprinted). Notice the Dealer Trade W.S. from Cooke Pontiac, Cooke's Dealer No. 09 131 is preprinted along the top edge.

I can't explain why this copy appears not to have been stuck on the car. My guess, since this car was a Dealer Order car perhaps a copy of the Window Sticker was shipped with other paperwork (like the shipping Manifest and so on) to the Dealer just to identify the shipment so the Dealer could confirm what was delivered. So this Window Sticker would be a duplicate of the one actually stuck on the glass at the Plant. Cars shipped to Zone Stock inventory locations were probably shipped with this same paperwork, probably kept by the Zone. In fact, that is probably the story with the Bonne convert W.S., it too is the duplicate copy that probably shipped with the car. When the car was sold to Hardin, the additional info was added, including Hardin's name, and handed to them. I'm guessing the W.S. on the Company Cars were removed and disposed of, since the Zone could easily retain the duplicate copy in the file.

Perhaps the Zone handed over the duplicate W.S. (with or without typing in the Dealer name) when they sold cars out of Zone Stock too. But the one that the retail buyer peeled off the glass would not have a Dealer Name on it if it was originally shipped to Zone Stock.

Ram Air I, I echo others, glad you've jumped in here. You have made a lot of guys jealous, wishing the original selling dealer of their own car had kept records the way your dad did.