Nothing's changed! - Page 13 - PY Online Forums

Goathead · #**241** 12-11-2004, 05:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Hell, it's already dated circa 1967. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nick, Ford is not a dumb company. I am sure that they will ride this retro thing for a few years while they develope a new style from the start for future stangs.

One thing I can say about Chrysler is that they are not afraid to come out with new styles, good or bad, and keep thier line fresh. They may use some old names, but they will take thier time and make them "retro friendly" so that they do not isolate the "old timers" portion of thier market. Just my humble opinion, and you know that's hard to come by......

rabon008 · #**242** 12-11-2004, 05:05 PM

Oh...so since Ford sells a lot of V6 Taurus's then maybe Pontiac should have copied that.

Point is, like it or not, the new GTO sells very well for its class. Compare apples with apples boys.

rabon008 · #**243** 12-11-2004, 05:19 PM

Better yet...copy Ford's idea...make the new GTO look like a '64 GTO and offer it with 4, 6, 8 cylinder, or maybe even electric motor options...yeah...now THAT's a GTO....

What are you guys talking about????

Nickv · #**244** 12-11-2004, 06:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Hell, it's already dated circa 1967. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nick, Ford is not a dumb company. I am sure that they will ride this retro thing for a few years while they develope a new style from the start for future stangs.

One thing I can say about Chrysler is that they are not afraid to come out with new styles, good or bad, and keep thier line fresh. They may use some old names, but they will take thier time and make them "retro friendly" so that they do not isolate the "old timers" portion of thier market. Just my humble opinion, and you know that's hard to come by......

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree about Chrysler. Right now I think they have the freshest designs of any of the Domestic car makers. But their 2006 4 Charger is probably the one car that I believe they made a mistake on. It's even worse than what Pontiac did as far as styling. Who ever heard of a 4 door Charger? The styling is so controversial that it's generating lots of "hate" mail at Chrysler.

The 2005 GTO is going in the right direction, but there is only so much that can be done with the present platform.

David Jones · #**245** 12-11-2004, 08:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>What are you guys talking about???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talking about making cars that people want. 400 hp is great. Selling enough of a model to keep it in production would help. Design a car that appeals to a large group of people. Bringing the 64 GTO back in this day and time wouldn't work. Ford didn't bring back the 69 Mustang, just a few styling cues to remind you of earlier models. If Pontiac doesn't alter its thinking, the GTO won't be around long enough to make a difference. The 05 changes help, but they need a clean sheet of paper and a car that appeals to a broader cross section of people. Whats wrong with a model line that includes a 6 cylinder? 300 hp is easy these days with a 6.

Snowbound · #**246** 12-11-2004, 11:14 PM

DJ, I wouldn't go as far as putting in a V6. They already have that in the G6. I think what they need is a more affordable optioned car. Drop the leather and traction control. People didn't buy muscle cars for the power windows and A/C back in the 60's. I think the same can be said for today, but not to the same level.

If they could come in with a MSRP around $25k they might actually compete for some of the Mustang GT buyers.

Same goes for the Caddy CTS-V. Great concept, but drop all the fancy crap like nav systems and make it affordable.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**247** 12-12-2004, 12:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
Oh...so since Ford sells a lot of V6 Taurus's then maybe Pontiac should have copied that.

Point is, like it or not, the new GTO sells very well for its class. Compare apples with apples boys. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

look at the grand am.

Goathead · #**248** 12-12-2004, 07:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Point is, like it or not, the new GTO sells very well for its class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

rabon008 · #**249** 12-12-2004, 09:11 AM

Roll your eyes all you want Danny but NO ONE has given me sales numbers of any car in the same class as the GTO that are better. Give me numbers and source. Many people want a Taurus, a 6 cylinder stang, or a weaka$$ V8 stang, show me the numbers on something that matches the GTO in performance and price!

rabon008 · #**250** 12-12-2004, 09:17 AM

judge_jury wrote: look at the grand am.

Oh, so my '04 Grand Am with the ALL the bells and whistles is compareable to the GTO? Grow up a while...My '04 GA with the 175 HP ram air package and racing rims does 0-60 in the mid 8's...its a toy compared to my GTO...nice looking little v6 but not even in the class of my GTO...try again...

red70goat · #**251** 12-12-2004, 10:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>What are you guys talking about???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talking about making cars that people want. 400 hp is great. Selling enough of a model to keep it in production would help. Design a car that appeals to a large group of people. Bringing the 64 GTO back in this day and time wouldn't work. Ford didn't bring back the 69 Mustang, just a few styling cues to remind you of earlier models. If Pontiac doesn't alter its thinking, the GTO won't be around long enough to make a difference. The 05 changes help, but they need a clean sheet of paper and a car that appeals to a broader cross section of people. Whats wrong with a model line that includes a 6 cylinder? 300 hp is easy these days with a 6. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given the price of gas these days a torquin' 6 would probably go over quite well. If GM wants to save the GTO then a retro styled Goat with 2 engine options would appeal to the money conscience performance minded consumer.

Trace · #**252** 12-12-2004, 10:55 PM

Rabon: Roll your eyes all you want Danny but NO ONE has given me sales numbers of any car in the same class as the GTO that are better. Give me numbers and source. Many people want a Taurus, a 6 cylinder stang, or a weaka$$ V8 stang, show me the numbers on something that matches the GTO in performance and price!

3 days ago I drove an '05 Mustang GT at my local dealer. They're in really short supply in my area of CA. & this was the first one they would let anyone test drive (it pays to know the owner). It's a hell of an improvement over my neighbor's '03 Mach I, but there's still that weak-tit 3 valver under the hood. The snap of thrust I feel with my '04 GTO just isn't there off the bottom. Mind you it's a fine engine & certainly makes nice power, but there's also a kind of unattractive dry whine from the engine as it comes up in rpm - may lessen with mileage, I don't know. One thing they <have> improved immensely is the steering feel - wow, it's light-years beyond any previous Mustang platform with excellent weighting & on-center feel. Now if they'll just rid it of that wagon axle rearend it might be a serious contender. By the way, $30k was his asking price for it & he wasn't budgin'! That's more than my GTO with a significantly better chassis & mill! No contest!

rabon008 · #**253** 12-12-2004, 11:03 PM

To Trace: yes, the GT isn't even in the class. Yet people want to compare how well ALL the mustang versions sell compared to the GTO. All I ask is for someone to give me numbers on how many units of the '04 Cobra Ford has sold and compare THAT to how many '04 GTOs have sold.

rabon008 · #**254** 12-12-2004, 11:06 PM

red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: Given the price of gas these days a torquin' 6 would probably go over quite well. If GM wants to save the GTO then a retro styled Goat with 2 engine options would appeal to the money conscience performance minded consumer.

I knew it! There is NO WAY that you are a real GTO enthusiast if you could ever want to put a 6 cylinder in one! GTOs are V8s. Period!

Trace · #**255** 12-12-2004, 11:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
To Trace: yes, the GT isn't even in the class. Yet people want to compare how well ALL the mustang versions sell compared to the GTO. All I ask is for someone to give me numbers on how many units of the '04 Cobra Ford has sold and compare THAT to how many '04 GTOs have sold. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hear ya ... but frankly I don't give a damn about how many GTO's have sold! Subaru didn't manage to sell more than a handful of SVX's in the 5 or so yrs it was available, but until I bought this GTO, it was the finest, best handling car I had ever owned...and it was rare enough I didn't pass one coming the other way every 10 minutes on the highway! As long as there are enough customers to assure a reasonable supply of parts & support, I'm happy

rabon008 · #**256** 12-12-2004, 11:16 PM

Absolutely agree Trace.

red70goat · #**257** 12-12-2004, 11:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: Given the price of gas these days a torquin' 6 would probably go over quite well. If GM wants to save the GTO then a retro styled Goat with 2 engine options would appeal to the money conscience performance minded consumer.

I knew it! There is NO WAY that you are a real GTO enthusiast if you could ever want to put a 6 cylinder in one! GTOs are V8s. Period! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't know sh*t. Get with the times. With todays technology you don't need a V-8 to crank out some serious hp. The V-8 along with the GM Monaro are going to be dinasaurs soon. BTW: GTOs are NOT Monaros. Period.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**258** 12-13-2004, 12:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
judge_jury wrote: look at the grand am.

Oh, so my '04 Grand Am with the ALL the bells and whistles is compareable to the GTO? Grow up a while...My '04 GA with the 175 HP ram air package and racing rims does 0-60 in the mid 8's...its a toy compared to my GTO...nice looking little v6 but not even in the class of my GTO...try again... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you were talking about the taurus's sales. i mentioned the GT's. next time youre driving around count how many are on the road. then compare that to the 04 gto. might be a V6 but i bet youll see more of them the 04 GTO.

NaOH · #**259** 12-13-2004, 05:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> You don't know sh*t. Get with the times. With todays technology you don't need a V-8 to crank out some serious hp. The V-8 along with the GM Monaro are going to be dinasaurs soon. BTW: GTOs are NOT Monaros. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I would love to have seen the hue and cry that would've been raised by traditionalists if they'd put forward anything with less than 8 cylinders as a GTO. A small, inexpensive, lightweight car with a supercharged V6 would've been a perfectly valid direction to go with a new GTO in my opinion... but I doubt many others would agree.
Having said that, I am satisfied with what we have.

red70goat · #**260** 12-13-2004, 05:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NaOH:
[QUOTE] You don't know sh*t. Get with the times. With todays technology you don't need a V-8 to crank out some serious hp. The V-8 along with the GM Monaro are going to be dinasaurs soon. BTW: GTOs are NOT Monaros. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I would love to have seen the hue and cry that would've been raised by traditionalists if they'd put forward anything with less than 8 cylinders as a GTO. A small, inexpensive, lightweight car with a supercharged V6 would've been a perfectly valid direction to go with a new GTO in my opinion... but I doubt many others would agree.
QUOTE]

I could be wrong, but I really don't think people would have minded at all if this car had been instantly recognizable as a GTO with 300+ hp. Thye got 1 out of 2.