Nothing's changed! - Page 11 - PY Online Forums

The Champ · #**201** 12-09-2004, 04:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
I guess the same would apply to Champ who also owns a Chevy and a Lincoln. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have not had, do not now have, nor will I ever own a stinkin' Lincoln.

I don't know where you came up with that, but in my family we would consider that claim an insult...

Other than our daily drivers, our vehicles are listed in my signature.

Pontiac doesn't make trucks, and so my PU is a Chevy.

My wife's daily driver is a Grand Prix GT.

The GTO is mine.

The Camaro is my wife's car, and it is a Camaro for 2 reasons - 1. her brother raced a '68 Camaro 2. her very first car was a '71 Camaro.

And the last car we have is the 1949 Cadillac Series 75 Limo that my father purchased in 1958 as our family car (to supplement his company demo car - he sold GM products for 45+ years).

That car was used when he bought it, and driven from 1958 - 1965. With 8 kids in the family, the oldest 2 in college, dad couldn't afford to repair the brakes when they went out in 1965, so the car was parked for 30 years.

In 1995, dad suffered from some serious health problems, and I restored the Cadillac so that I could see him drive it again.

Because of time and $$$ (time - had to get it done fast due to dad's health uncertainty - money - well, I'd just finished a 3 year resto of the Goat and didn't really have the money), I got a very presentable job done for $7,000.00.

Dad drove his Caddy on Father's Day of 1997 for the first time in 32 years. He never drove it again, but it was worth the $7,000.00 it cost to see his face that day.

Dad actually lived almost another 5 years, and we took him to many shows with his car.

His funeral was in April of '02, and his Caddy was there.

The links in the signature lead to photos of all three old cars. The Caddy pics show the my dad with his car the last time he was able to see it.

red70goat · #**202** 12-09-2004, 04:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
_ I guess the same would apply to Champ who also owns a Chevy and a Lincoln._ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I have not, do not now, nor will I ever own a stinkin' Lincoln."

>>> I glanced at your web page listings. Caddy Limo...Lincoln, whatever. The point is it's not a GTO. So what. That doesn't make you any less of an enthusiast. The only page I looked at was your '64 since the only car I'm interested in dumping a lot of $ in right now is an early model Pontiac GTO.

" Pontiac doesn't make trucks, and so my PU is a Chevy."

>>> You're right, they don't. They did do a prototype of one in the late 60's. But that's for another discussion. PHS archives might have something on that.

" The Camaro is my wife's car, and it is a Camaro for 2 reasons -"

>>> Chill out Champ. No need to explain why you have a Chevy in your stable. Having a Chevy, Ford, Caddy, BMW or any other car doesn't make you any less of a Pontiac guy. And yes I did go back to what I think was my original user name from a year or so ago. Whatza Monaros' work was done.

The Champ · #**203** 12-09-2004, 05:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
I glanced at your web page listings. Caddy Limo...Lincoln, whatever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sorry, but in my family, them's fighting words.

If you can't tell the difference between a Caddy and a Lincoln, how can you complain about the 2004 GTO?

Goathead · #**204** 12-09-2004, 05:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> (well, maybe a little ) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

disc0monkey · #**205** 12-09-2004, 06:23 PM

the bottom line is GM should have made the '04 model like the '05 from the start. Most would be a little dissappointed from not having a fresh design, but its a bit more retro than the '04 with the scoops etc. and the harmony of the wide dual exhuast would make you forget really quick that its a monaro and everyone would've been happy and thats it. Does anyone agree with this?

red70goat · #**206** 12-09-2004, 06:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
I glanced at your web page listings. _Caddy Limo...Lincoln, whatever_. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sorry, but in my family, them's fighting words.

If you can't tell the difference between a Caddy and a Lincoln, how can you complain about the 2004 GTO? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Had I looked at your web page listings again before that post I would have specified Caddy Limo. I knew it was something with an "L".Sorry. Given that as a kid I worked for a guy that owned both a mortuary and a furniture store, we often used his Caddy to deliver both corpses and furniture, I can tell the difference.Anyways, I remeber those awesome "bullets" that were on those gargantuan front bumpers! As far as the 04 GTO: That's the problem: it looks like every other car out there, not a GTO...just can't get excited about that.

Goathead · #**207** 12-09-2004, 10:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> as a kid I worked for a guy that owned both a mortuary and a furniture store, we often used his Caddy to deliver both corpses and furniture <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I was growing up, there was a guy with a sign in he alley of his store that said "we buy junk". Around front, it said "antiques for sale"

Snowbound · #**208** 12-09-2004, 11:49 PM

red70, I'm glad you changed back to your old user. Sorry, but the other one made you look like a troll.

As for your '70, there is a fellow on the board that did a mini tub on his black '70 and it looked wicked. I think there are pics under the suspension forum. You wouldn't go wrong taking a page from that book.

I wish everybody would chill out a little. Sure the '04 looks like every other new car, but the '64 looked like every other car back then. Like others have said, how many times has some one asked what year your Chevelle is. I had the same with my '70 GS.

And as for the Chevy engine in the car, there is a good reason for that. Sorry boys, but the Chevy small block is probably the best all around engine ever made. Economics dictated that GM go with a single small V8 and there was no better choice. The Pontiac, Buick and Olds, as good as they were can't hold a candle to the SBC. Flame away.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**209** 12-10-2004, 01:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
the bottom line is GM should have made the '04 model like the '05 from the start. Most would be a little dissappointed from not having a fresh design, but its a bit more retro than the '04 with the scoops etc. and the harmony of the wide dual exhuast would make you forget really quick that its a monaro and everyone would've been happy and thats it. Does anyone agree with this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree 100 %. but it makes me mad that GM halfa**ed it. there is no styling. the 05 mustang looks somewhat like a 60 something mustang. the 06 charger will have a baby hemi. if chevy comes out with a new chevele it will prolly be faster then the GTO just so the chevy guys can talk sh**. i dont agree with the gto badge. its a australlian car, chevy motor (since pontiac stopped making their own engines and put chevy engines in them it wont be a real pontiac but then again pontiac wont make their own engines again ), with a GTO badge. the 04 is running mid 13's (that slower then some imports). how does gm put that out and expect people to love the car. if it had a diffrent badge or can run mid 12's out of the box then that would be fine. but no way should gm put out something (especially a GTO that was the first muscle car) and have it lose to a import 4 banger car. thats not love. thats embarassment. now theyre playing catch up with the 05 and sounds liek theyre doing a better job this time. they can do better. especially for $35,000 give or take a few. thats why i like my 69 pontiac enen tho its old it IS a pontiac.

red70goat · #**210** 12-10-2004, 09:23 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snowbound:
red70, I'm glad you changed back to your old user. Sorry, but the other one made you look like a troll.

As for your '70, there is a fellow on the board that did a mini tub on his black '70 and it looked wicked. I think there are pics under the suspension forum. You wouldn't go wrong taking a page from that book.

I wish everybody would chill out a little. Sure the '04 looks like every other new car,....(QUOTE]

Snowbound, thanks for the 70 reference. I'll check it out. I think most of the contention on this board isn't so much directed at the looks of the '04 but rather to those that feel they are at a higher standard than those who oppose it. Those of us who oppose it are relegated to trolldom, peanut gallery, etc. We supposedly just don't "get it". I think GM would find there are quite a few "haters" that would quickly accept this car as a GTO if GM made the effort to give it some minor retro cues in the grill and tail light area.

Goathead · #**211** 12-10-2004, 02:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I think GM would find there are quite a few "haters" that would quickly accept this car as a GTO if GM made the effort to give it some minor retro cues in the grill and tail light area. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nickv · #**212** 12-10-2004, 03:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
the bottom line is GM should have made the '04 model like the '05 from the start. Most would be a little dissappointed from not having a fresh design, but its a bit more retro than the '04 with the scoops etc. and the harmony of the wide dual exhuast would make you forget really quick that its a monaro and everyone would've been happy and thats it. Does anyone agree with this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree 100 %. but it makes me mad that GM halfa**ed it. there is no styling. the 05 mustang looks somewhat like a 60 something mustang. the 06 charger will have a baby hemi. if chevy comes out with a new chevele it will prolly be faster then the GTO just so the chevy guys can talk sh**. i dont agree with the gto badge. its a australlian car, chevy motor (since pontiac stopped making their own engines and put chevy engines in them it wont be a real pontiac but then again pontiac wont make their own engines again ), with a GTO badge. the 04 is running mid 13's (that slower then some imports). how does gm put that out and expect people to love the car. if it had a diffrent badge or can run mid 12's out of the box then that would be fine. but no way should gm put out something (especially a GTO that was the first muscle car) and have it lose to a import 4 banger car. thats not love. thats embarassment. now theyre playing catch up with the 05 and sounds liek theyre doing a better job this time. they can do better. especially for $35,000 give or take a few. thats why i like my 69 pontiac enen tho its old it IS a pontiac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know to many 4 banger imports that run are gonna beat the 05 GTO. C&D with their lousy drivers turn a 13.3@107. I have info from a source that ran an 05 to 12.9@108. I myself have taking my BONE STOCK 350HP overweight 04 GTO to a 13.3@104. There are a few 04 GTO cars that have done a 13.1 1/4 mile time FACTORY STOCK. Holden took their 400HP LS2 4 door car which is heavier than the already heavy 05 GTO and ran a 13.0@109 with it.

The new GTO lives up to it's legend. In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states and the possibility even a larger engine (inside info)

, Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear.

red70goat · #**213** 12-10-2004, 03:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
... In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states... Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's going to take much more than being built in the states to save the GTO. If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built. From what I've seen the 07 doesn't look much better. If GM doesn't correct this there probably will be no GTO in 2007.

disc0monkey · #**214** 12-10-2004, 03:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
... In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states... Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's going to take much more than being built in the states to save the GTO. If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built. From what I've seen the 07 doesn't look much better. If GM doesn't correct this there probably will be no GTO in 2007. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

your telling me you saw a 07?

rabon008 · #**215** 12-10-2004, 03:57 PM

red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built.

SUUURE...and I suppose if there had been a gap of 30 years with no production cars in between your '70 and the original '64 everyone would have instantly recognized it as a goat. Right.

red70goat · #**216** 12-10-2004, 04:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
... In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states... Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's going to take much more than being built in the states to save the GTO. If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built. From what I've seen the 07 doesn't look much better. If GM doesn't correct this there probably will be no GTO in 2007. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

your telling me you saw a 07? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I went on the google search engine and typed in "2007 GTO Renderings" and saw several prototypes. Of course, that's not to say that is what GM is going to do, but it appears it may be close to the current format.

red70goat · #**217** 12-10-2004, 04:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built.

SUUURE...and I suppose if there had been a gap of 30 years with no production cars in between your '70 and the original '64 everyone would have instantly recognized it as a goat. Right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab: Once again you prove my observation that those who challenge GMs attempt of reviving the GTO on a Monaro platform with generic designing are percieved as not as "knowledgeable" as those who embrace it. Given the well documented negative reaction to the introduction of the 04 it was easily ascertained that the core of the negativity was found in the lack of retro cues. As far as a 30 yr. gap between the my 70 and the original 64: That didn't happen, the GTO went on to establish itself as a legendary musclecar so your supposition has no merit.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**218** 12-10-2004, 06:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
the bottom line is GM should have made the '04 model like the '05 from the start. Most would be a little dissappointed from not having a fresh design, but its a bit more retro than the '04 with the scoops etc. and the harmony of the wide dual exhuast would make you forget really quick that its a monaro and everyone would've been happy and thats it. Does anyone agree with this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree 100 %. but it makes me mad that GM halfa**ed it. there is no styling. the 05 mustang looks somewhat like a 60 something mustang. the 06 charger will have a baby hemi. if chevy comes out with a new chevele it will prolly be faster then the GTO just so the chevy guys can talk sh**. i dont agree with the gto badge. its a australlian car, chevy motor (since pontiac stopped making their own engines and put chevy engines in them it wont be a real pontiac but then again pontiac wont make their own engines again ), with a GTO badge. the 04 is running mid 13's (that slower then some imports). how does gm put that out and expect people to love the car. if it had a diffrent badge or can run mid 12's out of the box then that would be fine. but no way should gm put out something (especially a GTO that was the first muscle car) and have it lose to a import 4 banger car. thats not love. thats embarassment. now theyre playing catch up with the 05 and sounds liek theyre doing a better job this time. they can do better. especially for $35,000 give or take a few. thats why i like my 69 pontiac enen tho its old it IS a pontiac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know to many 4 banger imports that run are gonna beat the 05 GTO. C&D with their lousy drivers turn a 13.3@107. I have info from a source that ran an 05 to 12.9@108. I myself have taking my BONE STOCK 350HP overweight 04 GTO to a 13.3@104. There are a few 04 GTO cars that have done a 13.1 1/4 mile time FACTORY STOCK. Holden took their 400HP LS2 4 door car which is heavier than the already heavy 05 GTO and ran a 13.0@109 with it.

The new GTO lives up to it's legend. In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states and the possibility even a larger engine (inside info)

, Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why didnt they do this with the 04? now that it can beat the imports what about the cobras and the 06 charger? is this 12.9 consistant? or did they just get lucky? anyone know what the 05 will sticker for ?

Goat luver · #**219** 12-10-2004, 06:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built.

SUUURE...and I suppose if there had been a gap of 30 years with no production cars in between your '70 and the original '64 everyone would have instantly recognized it as a goat. Right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab: Once again you prove my observation that those who challenge GMs attempt of reviving the GTO on a Monaro platform with generic designing are percieved as not as "knowledgeable" as those who embrace it. Given the well documented negative reaction to the introduction of the 04 it was easily ascertained that the core of the negativity was found in the lack of retro cues. As far as a 30 yr. gap between the my 70 and the original 64: That didn't happen, the GTO went on to establish itself as a legendary musclecar so your supposition has no merit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course Rabon's supposition has merit. Just because it didn't happen doesn't stop the scenerio from being set.

red70goat · #**220** 12-10-2004, 06:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built.

SUUURE...and I suppose if there had been a gap of 30 years with no production cars in between your '70 and the original '64 everyone would have instantly recognized it as a goat. Right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab: Once again you prove my observation that those who challenge GMs attempt of reviving the GTO on a Monaro platform with generic designing are percieved as not as "knowledgeable" as those who embrace it. Given the well documented negative reaction to the introduction of the 04 it was easily ascertained that the core of the negativity was found in the lack of retro cues. As far as a 30 yr. gap between the my 70 and the original 64: That didn't happen, the GTO went on to establish itself as a legendary musclecar so your supposition has no merit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course Rabon's supposition has merit. Just because it didn't happen doesn't stop the scenerio from being set. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh, Ok. Nobody is saying it's wrong to set a scenario no matter how ridiculous or inapplicable. Make us another one Rab.

" Forgive Bob Lutz, For he knows not what they want".