[bigunde]

Originally Posted by keith k

Ummm... the ZL1 (assuming you're talking about the NEW one) IS supercharged. So, per the factory ratings, the 5.8L SC Ford engine makes more power than the 6.2L SC "cheby" engine.

Uh Oh now you have done it with the cheby comment.

Anyways,isn't the 6.2 still a two valve push rod engine where the 5.4 is 4 valve OHC? Just asking folks not a trick question. LOL

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and
Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall,
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

Sorry Bill, I am stealing this too.

[GTOnly70]

I can't believe the "it's getting out of hand" comments on this board!!! Really?!!? Are you f'n serious?!? Is this a car enthusiast board or the Oprah fan club board?!?

Just a few years ago, we were worrying about the death of modern performance cars due to increasing regulations, insurance restrictions etc. Yet Dodge, Ford, and Chevy just continue to up the ante, in pretty spectacular ways. SRT8, GT500, Boss, Camaro SS, Vette ZR1. Kind of like...oh... the late 1960's! You know, that era of unbridled performance that we all used to pine for. Hemis, Ram Air IV's, LS6s, Stage 1's, W-30's. Bring it on! Onward and upward. "If I could have bought a car back then, I would have bought...blah, blah, blah". Well those time are back in a big way. Not as big a selection perhaps, but great offerings from all three. And these cars are better in EVERY SINGLE RESPECT than the old muscle cars. Better handling, better stopping, faster, quicker, more comfortable, better gas mileage, etc, etc, etc.

650hp is insane. Insanely cool. And these chariots are 500% safer than the 40-50 year old death traps most of us own and pilot around at least on a weekend basis. They get nearly twice the gas mileage, with the AC on. And here's a newsflash for you - you can kill yourself just as easily in a speeding Camry as a speeding Camaro. From my perspective, I'm pretty sure I could drive a GT500 around on a regular basis without wrapping it around a tree. As for price, is a $150k trailer queen Judge convertible really cooler than a new $65k Shelby GT-500? Really?

As for me, I plan to buy one of these awesome machines while they are still here and available. My family prefers the Challenger, but I really like the new Shelby. I'll buy one because I can. I'll enjoy it the same way I enjoy my '69 Judge and my '65 Tri-Power. I'm a car nut, what can I say?

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by bigunde

Sorry Bill, I am stealing this too.

That makes the three of us pilferers.

[Judge Smails]

...but...but...but...for the same amount of money you'd be able to buy a one-of-twelve...*DZZZT!* er, eleven... **DZZT! KABOOM!*...er, ten...goobermint-built Chevy Volt with a randomly-detachable steering wheel, which can go almost 600 feet on $25 worth of fossil fuel-created electricity and help you roast marshmallows while it heats your front yard in the shadow of the smoldering remains of your newly extra-crispy house & garage.

[68gtoMN]

And the obligatory line "don't sell yourself short judge, you're a tremendous slouch"

[Cobrabill]

[bird of fire69]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

I guess you can throw me in the old catagory as well, I would be happy with a V-6 Mustang or Camaro pushing out 305 HP. I am still amazed at what the newer V-6 can do. It would be fun to rent a newer V-8 to thrash for a day but the V-6 is more than enough for most people especially in ever crowded streets.

X2 I AGREE , i plan on buying a v6 mustang for my wife, i test drove a 2011 model i thought it had plenty of h.p.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by bigunde

Anyways,isn't the 6.2 still a two valve push rod engine where the 5.4 is 4 valve OHC? Just asking folks not a trick question. LOL

Yup. DOHC, actually....

[uneasyrider]

Hmm... I don't mind the hp as much as I don't like it that ANYONE with cash can buy one of these type of cars. They are far more capable than the '60's cars but cash doesn't equal driving prowess. I guess if you are ask to sleep at a Holiday in before you buy one its OK, right? I think anyone that has a little money is totally qualified to have 600hp, correct? Everyone can drive with traction control, right? Is it governed for stupid? I guess anyone can buy a hand gun too, well for the most part.

I learned to drive the wrong way but I did learn. I don't claim to be Jackie Stewart but I do know for a fact that cash does not equal driving ability. I know a guy that went and bought an '08 GT500. I can tell you he shouldn't have it...

[arbys]

Originally Posted by uneasyrider

Hmm... I don't mind the hp as much as I don't like it that ANYONE with cash can buy one of these type of cars. They are far more capable than the '60's cars but cash doesn't equal driving prowess. I guess if you are ask to sleep at a Holiday in before you buy one its OK, right? I think anyone that has a little money is totally qualified to have 600hp, correct? Everyone can drive with traction control, right? Is it governed for stupid? I guess anyone can buy a hand gun too, well for the most part.

I learned to drive the wrong way but I did learn. I don't claim to be Jackie Stewart but I do know for a fact that cash does not equal driving ability. I know a guy that went and bought an '08 GT500. I can tell you he shouldn't have it...

Two weeks ago I was at a weekly car show in Scottsdale AZ. There was a separation of cars where the Corvettes were in one area, newer Mustangs in another then the rest of the areas were like 70 and older Chebbies and on and on and on. I didn't even look at the Corvettes or Newer Mustangs. You can see them anywhere and all you need is a checkbook to own one. Show me cars where someone has invested time and effort.

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by arbys

Two weeks ago I was at a weekly car show in Scottsdale AZ. There was a separation of cars where the Corvettes were in one area, newer Mustangs in another then the rest of the areas were like 70 and older Chebbies and on and on and on. I didn't even look at the Corvettes or Newer Mustangs. You can see them anywhere and all you need is a checkbook to own one. Show me cars where someone has invested time and effort.

I have to qualify my comment with the fact that I was deleting it as you used it so I couldn't delete it.

In the end it is a bit hypocritical for us to ask the question "Is this too much?" I think. In America it is or prerogative to own it but it is our responsibility to use it wisely and our privilege to live in a country where we can buy it and be allowed to drive it responsibly. I can't think of any other way to word it. I would love to have 3,500hp in my TA so it performed like a Can Am car on the street. You just have to go on what Clint Eastwood said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

[NBF823]

Originally Posted by arbys

Two weeks ago I was at a weekly car show in Scottsdale AZ. There was a separation of cars where the Corvettes were in one area, newer Mustangs in another then the rest of the areas were like 70 and older Chebbies and on and on and on. I didn't even look at the Corvettes or Newer Mustangs. You can see them anywhere and all you need is a checkbook to own one. Show me cars where someone has invested time and effort.

Right on!
Most of those guys are gonna part with those cars though. Then, the cars, and they're parts fall into the hands of the time and effort guys. I don't look at them to often either, just sort of check on them, investigate the new tech, and go about my buisness. Maybe one those cars will land in my driveway someday. It's good to see them being built. I may have an SN197 someday.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by arbys

Two weeks ago I was at a weekly car show in Scottsdale AZ. There was a separation of cars where the Corvettes were in one area,

The "Smug"factor at Snottsdale triples when the 'Vette club shows up.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by uneasyrider

Hmm... I don't mind the hp as much as I don't like it that ANYONE with cash can buy one of these type of cars. They are far more capable than the '60's cars but cash doesn't equal driving prowess. ............ I learned to drive the wrong way but I did learn. I don't claim to be Jackie Stewart but I do know for a fact that cash does not equal driving ability. I know a guy that went and bought an '08 GT500. I can tell you he shouldn't have it...

When I was using my 600+ rear wheel horsepower Mustang "Pool Car", years ago, to demonstrate what a REAL 600 hp felt like to Ford Executives, (there were lots of people claiming their Vipers, Vettes made that HP), I had to be really careful to explain to them as they drove the vehicle how powerful it really was for the average person to drive.

The car had a modded T-56 6-speed transmission.

Several of them tore the clutch facing off the pressure plate with 1st gear, shift to 2nd gear, shift to 1st gear (vs 3rd gear) moves. You knew it was coming so you braced yourself. Others had the car "come around on them" as they applied too much power in a curve. Others just basically pissed their pants when the car accelerated. Pretty much all of them had "hand shaking" at the end of the drives.

I totally agree with what you have posted. It is cool if you can drive a 600 hp rwhp car on the street but easy to get into trouble. That being said, the street is far more dangerous place vs driving a 1000 hp vehicle on the track. A 1000 hp track vehicle will typically have proper safety equipment for that hp.

Even the GOOD Drivers have issues sometimes:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/167574/z350_crash/

Tom Vaught

[goatman-68]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Agree, until you drive a 750 HP mule. The 750 hp mules have been out there for at least 3 years. (;>)

Tom Vaught

9 years ago I was driving a 600 rwhp mule.

Hey Tom, how about a nice You-Tube video of you torturing the mule?????

[Tom Vaught]

"Mule" is Long Gone. H*ll, I have been working on ECOBOOST stuff for 6 years now.

The Ford "Terminator" project (2003-2004 Supercharged Mustang) morphed from that Mule.

As did the Ford GT engine.

Tom Vaught

I did have a picture of me driving a Mule show up on the Internet one time and someone posted the picture but that was driving the Mule on the street from one location to another one.

[KS circutguy]

I can't believe the "it's getting out of hand" comments on this board!!! Really?!!? Are you f'n serious?!? Is this a car enthusiast board or the Oprah fan club board?!?

rofl
Excellent

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by KS circutguy

[/b]
rofl
Excellent

Says the Honey badger.....

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

When I was using my 600+ rear wheel horsepower Mustang "Pool Car", years ago, to demonstrate what a REAL 600 hp felt like to Ford Executives, (there were lots of people claiming their Vipers, Vettes made that HP), I had to be really careful to explain to them as they drove the vehicle how powerful it really was for the average person to drive.

The car had a modded T-56 6-speed transmission.

Several of them tore the clutch facing off the pressure plate with 1st gear, shift to 2nd gear, shift to 1st gear (vs 3rd gear) moves. You knew it was coming so you braced yourself. Others had the car "come around on them" as they applied too much power in a curve. Others just basically pissed their pants when the car accelerated. Pretty much all of them had "hand shaking" at the end of the drives.

I totally agree with what you have posted. It is cool if you can drive a 600 hp rwhp car on the street but easy to get into trouble. That being said, the street is far more dangerous place vs driving a 1000 hp vehicle on the track. A 1000 hp track vehicle will typically have proper safety equipment for that hp.

Even the GOOD Drivers have issues sometimes:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/167574/z350_crash/

Tom Vaught

That guy was hauling butt alright. It sounded like something was rattling and something broke? The car started getting sloppy like a low rear tire?

Yep, from what I have seen of the average driver they think they want all that car until they get it. The smart ones give it back or sell it right away the rest hopefully can drive or learn to drive or never use the available hp and the others bite it. Like I said, I'm not Mark Donohue or Denny Hulme but I've learned one BIG thing that keeps me out of trouble in a high hp/tq rig... the gas peddle works between on and off in very fine increments and you better use everyone of them until you learn the car. Even then you better not get over confident and you better give plenty of safety factor. On the street in a 600hp Mustang plus the average spud nut... It isn't adding up to any good numbers on the back of my envelope. It isn't like the Corvette isn't out there to buy and a ton of others so why not Shelby too. We live in the U.S. of A. and I'm glad to have the freedoms we have and I don't want to be micro managed so here we are. It's a fine balance these freedoms. Life is truly a game of odds.