[Jerry H.]

I was watching the BJ auction in Florida and saw two pretty good Pontiacs go for 25k and less. There was a red 68 GTO, although not perfect, but pretty dang nice sold for around 25k. Then a red with white interior 69 SJ Grand Prix barely broke 20k. It was announced that it was an older restoration, but again looked pretty good.

I realize that the auction lights sometime make a car look better than it actually is, and the same is true with pictures. If you check Ebay, dealers are asking close to 50k for similar cars. I realize they have to buy these cars and make a profit, but doubling your money

[fred jernejec]

I was thinking the same thing this past week! Not a Chevy guy but I went on Ebay and looked at some Chevelles and Impalas. Oh my!! I then went to the completed listings and found most of the ones sold were under 25k Alot of 69 Chevelles were 50g plus asking price! It seems like most cars nowadays on Ebay are dealer cars > This also seems true for cars being sold on other venues on the internet.There are some deals at the auction houses to be had but most of these will be snatched up by the dealers and then resold down the road at twice the price! Alot of guys rather buy from dealers than private owners. Fred

[Bills Auto Works]

They did a preview of the 69 GP with the 428 & I fell in love with it! The only thing I would have changed for it to be my favorite car would have been to paint it black.

Had I been there this time, I might have had to "lift my arm"!!!

I cringed when the guy doing the preview called it a "big block" 428! LOL

God bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...closed.614419/

[mgarblik]

I really believe you are seeing the results of several factors playing out at the same time. Similar to what 55-57 Chevy lovers experienced 5 years ago and model T people decades before that. The muscle car crowd is aging out. Owning and enjoying a muscle car is taking a back seat to all kinds of expensive health issues which require large amounts of cash for co-pays and deductibles to stay alive. Muscle cars that are self-restored and older restorations become a bargain when the sellers need cash in a hurry. Combine that with a rapidly diminishing number of buyers and you have what we are experiencing now. When SD Catalinas are selling for half of what they were bringing 7 years ago, you know the market just doesn't have enough interested buyers with money for a nice steel SD car. Grand Prix's, same deal. They made 97,000 of them in 69. I love them. But only an SJ with a 4-speed will bring maximum $. There are a few wealthy Pontiac buyers out there that will always have the $ to buy the best and rarest of the rare. All the rest, the typical non-Ram Air IV GTO, Firebirds, and the like will continue to be great buys. My friend who I am always mentioning that buys and sells these cars for a living is buying like crazy right now. He specifically buys over-restored, rotisserie restorations of regular muscle cars now. He is buying near perfect examples from all the manufacturers at 30-40% of what the restoration cost to perform. In the last few months a few examples are: a Dodge Dart GTS 340 column auto, a 390 4-speed Mustang. This is a great time to get into a muscle car and ENJOY it as it was intended. People who really love these cars for what they are have a great opportunity to buy one now and have a decade or two of enjoyment from the car and still not get hurt on depreciation. As a retirement investment, not so good right now.

[nas t eh]

I didn’t think it would happen for a few more years, but if they are on there way down then they are going to keep going.

[BOB VIDAN]

Same thing is happening with parts sales. Most all the cars have been done 1, 2 or 3 times coupled with the fact they are now repoping parts that should have been done 20 years ago.

[68azbird]

This is from an auction this past February. It was a really nice car inside and out.

[bird72]

My finger in the wind says modified cars will be what keeps these cars alive as vibrant collectors. The resto's and historic rare cars will always have a place. And the exotic rare will always be king of the heap.

Compare the mentioned Model T and 57 cars. Bone stock are probably the least marketable to the general hobby public.

Younger crowd wants handling, tech advantages in performance, and non stock rims. I like that this is the spirit of hot rodding in the first place.

I see a shift, not a demise. Also a correction to real.

[Stuart]

It seems like this topic comes up every year. Prices go up and go down and go up again. If we could accurately predict long term trends we'd all be millionaires.

[bendutro]

Originally Posted by bird72

Younger crowd wants handling, tech advantages in performance, and non stock rims. I like that this is the spirit of hot rodding in the first place.

I see a shift, not a demise. Also a correction to real.

Yep. A new V6 Honda Accord is more of a driver's car than an original GTO.
I'm building mine in a resto-mod style but engine, trans, suspension, brakes and more are being upgraded in the process. It's necessary IMO to keep the car safe, engaging and roadworthy.

[GT182]

Jerry, dealers are the worst for new and used, or classics. They'll rip out your heart to get at our money.

[nas t eh]

Originally Posted by Stuart

It seems like this topic comes up every year. Prices go up and go down and go up again. If we could accurately predict long term trends we'd all be millionaires.

Don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know the baby boomers will leave the market and the group coming after is much smaller. Supply and demand will prevail.

[carbking]

Gloom and doom threads come up every so often.

I don't buy and sell cars, and have no idea of their value. I have all of the collector cars I need, so need to participate in that market.

But I am VERY active is the selling of parts. Carburetor kit sales (even with competition from those acquiring stuff out of country), are stronger than ever; and I turn down an average of 25 carburetor restorations weekly. With the demand for the kits, no time to restore carburetors.

Does that sound like gloom and doom?

Many younger folks are getting into the hobby, and while we sell muscle car kits (and carbs) like the thesis of this thread, right now our two largest sellers are kits for Caterpillar, and kits for 1915~1935 Buick. Doesn't sound like the market is dead for older vehicles.

Enjoy the hobby; the future will take care of itself.

Jon.

[64speed]

My nephew just graduated from Clemson with a degree in mechanical engineering. Very low student loan debt and no credit card or any other debt to speak of. Making over 70 grand a year not married no children. He is very interested in classic cars and muscle cars, always has been. When he graduated I figured a charger or Camaro would follow. NOPE a Mazda 6. I asked him why and got an answer about gas mileage. My youngest daughter is only 3 but she LOVES to be in the garage and “helping” me fix my car. That is a seed I hope I can nurture and make her into a gearhead. If it’s up to me she will have something very cool to drive in HS. My oldest daughter is fixing to be driving age and I hope I can steer her to a falcon or a 6 cylinder Chevy II or something like that but I doubt it. She’s eclectic and is self conscious and will want to fit in with the crowd. I will probably give her my wife’s car and get my wife something new. Hopefully a newer Denali. My Yukon has 356,000 miles on it I checked just the other day. Other than being dirty you’d never know. Since I am knee deep in this restoration I hope I can get a half a million miles out of it. We will see.

[1965gp]

Also remember that the stock market has been doing relatively well past couple years. Seems to be inversely related to classic cars because they are easy to put money into and can be sold anywhere. Stock market goes down, classics go up. Stock market goes up, classics go down. Too much money for people to let sit when they could be investing.

[Frank R]

I do find it ironic the venue (Barrett Jackson) that drove the prices up now has better deals than local sellers. I’ve been looking for a drivers quality Pontiac locally and advertised prices are very high. Same thing on eBay but if you look at sold auctions most are 10-15K price range not the 35-80K dealer listings.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by carbking

Gloom and doom threads come up every so often.

I don't buy and sell cars, and have no idea of their value. I have all of the collector cars I need, so need to participate in that market.

But I am VERY active is the selling of parts. Carburetor kit sales (even with competition from those acquiring stuff out of country), are stronger than ever; and I turn down an average of 25 carburetor restorations weekly. With the demand for the kits, no time to restore carburetors.

Does that sound like gloom and doom?

Many younger folks are getting into the hobby, and while we sell muscle car kits (and carbs) like the thesis of this thread, right now our two largest sellers are kits for Caterpillar, and kits for 1915~1935 Buick. Doesn't sound like the market is dead for older vehicles.

Enjoy the hobby; the future will take care of itself.

Jon.

I don't feel this thread is a "gloom and doom thread" in any way. In fact, quite the opposite. For "REAL" car people who enjoy this hobby for the joy of muscle cars, this is a great opportunity to go out and buy, own, drive and enjoy one on a working mans income. The prices are attractive for real muscle cars in decent condition to drive or enjoy or a completely restored one for a fraction of what it would cost to bring a rust bucket back from the dead. The only possible "gloom and doom" might be a few who cashed-in their 401K's to buy and over-restore a few muscle cars thinking this was their retirement plan. I have a few friends who have successfully done this, but they study the market, stay on top of all the trends, and treat the "hobby" as a business. No attachment to the vehicles, they are just metal stock certificates.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by carbking

... right now our two largest sellers are kits for Caterpillar, and kits for 1915~1935 Buick.

WHAT the...?

[thebuick]

I agree , I seen the Buick GSX numbers matching go for under 50K GET REAL SELLERS. TIME TO ADJUST YOUR BJ wanna B cars to some normal prices

[carbking]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

WHAT the...?

The comment was made to attempt to refute the "wisdom" that as the older generation dies off, the market for the cars of the youth of that generation dies as well.

For probably 20 years, our best seller as far as carburetor rebuilding kits has been Caterpillar. The 1915 to 1935 Buick kits seem to be gaining in popularity. We sell more of them each year.

Yes, we still sell a fair amount of kits for Pontiac, but the percentage is less than it used to be.

Yesterday, received a request for a kit for 1912 Ford Model T; one of the few carburetors from 1912 up that we do NOT offer a kit.

The market, at least for parts, varies greatly from year to year. As I stated earlier, I do not know the market for vehicles, but as the market for parts is steady, it would seem there is also a market for vehicles.

We have complete sales records since 1974 on our sales computer. After doing this for so many years, I can look at the sales data for a five year sequence, and tell you which years were years with Olympic games. If the previous year was a presidential election year, I can tell which party won the election.

As someone posted earlier, stocks are doing relatively well at this time. Should the stock market decline, historically car prices go up.

Enjoy the hobby for the sake of the hobby.

Jon.