[t money]

Looks like Butler Performance got Eagle to make a 5140 forged factory like replacement connecting rod ( but with 7/16 arp bolts ) for 319 dollar. Press pin only hope in time they offer them in bushing type. Sorry I can’t link the Butler ad.

[shaker455]

https://butlerperformance.com/

I looked at they're machine shop pics.....nasty old machines in a newer building.

[mgarblik]

I looked at the shop pics as well and came away with a different impression. All I could find were the 12 "shop" pics. Looked like a nice dyno-cell with updated Superflow SF 902 dyno with the newer up-dated electronics. A build/clean room that looked the part. The line hone looked a little crusty, but if the mandrels are tight and it has good stones, it really doesn't matter. The 3 large green machines that look old are a thermal cleaning process, one is an oven, one a media blaster and the third a shaker. They always look a little rough because they spend their life cleaning 50+ year old engine parts. I saw a nice hone, a Serdi machine in the background, and clean floors. Looked just fine to me. Possibly I was missing something?

[64speed]

What does all that have to do with the rods

[Half-Inch Stud]

2 nasty old cank grinders down here with nice old crank grinder operator, who used to race with Butler in the 60's-early 70's; he hit all the Rods and Mains to the 0.0005" on my CAST and Forged cranks (differnt rod journals too).

No issue with Manual machines when the Machinist knows what they are doing.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I looked at the shop pics as well and came away with a different impression. All I could find were the 12 "shop" pics. Looked like a nice dyno-cell with updated Superflow SF 902 dyno with the newer up-dated electronics. A build/clean room that looked the part. The line hone looked a little crusty, but if the mandrels are tight and it has good stones, it really doesn't matter. The 3 large green machines that look old are a thermal cleaning process, one is an oven, one a media blaster and the third a shaker. They always look a little rough because they spend their life cleaning 50+ year old engine parts. I saw a nice hone, a Serdi machine in the background, and clean floors. Looked just fine to me. Possibly I was missing something?

Now, Mike, don’t let logic, reason and experience overwhelm supposition and ignorance.....

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

2 nasty old cank grinders down here with nice old crank grinder operator, who used to race with Butler in the 60's-early 70's; he hit all the Rods and Mains to the 0.0005" on my CAST and Forged cranks (differnt rod journals too).

No issue with Manual machines when the Machinist knows what they are doing.

.0005? The spec I had to meet was .0002.. Additionally, the RTM270 I used was nearly as old as I was.

[Tom Vaught]

Billy Glidden showed me his dad's shop where he built his Pro Stock Engines.
Bob Glidden, or his wife or sons, did all of the Engine Building/Machining.
Bob was afraid someone would steal his engine building secrets (and he probably was right in that assumption.

Every machine in that place, except for the Engine Dyno) was OLD WW-II stuff.
But it was solid, TRUE, and repeatable equipment.

Once you understand that, the shiny new machine is only as good as the guy operating it.

Tom V.

[dataway]

With my 1957 Bridgeport I can repeat the same .002" error over and over again

[Cliff R]

Every machine in that place, except for the Engine Dyno) was OLD WW-II stuff.
But it was solid, TRUE, and repeatable equipment.

LOVE that old equipment and what I was trained on WAY back in the early 1980's when I went to machinists school. I still remember my first day in class looking around at all that antiquated WWII or older equipment that looked like it should have been "mothballed" decades ago.

You walked in the door, sat down with about 30 other students and they handed everyone a drill bit. In great detail they explained EVERYTHING about a drill bit, or the "science" involved with the different angles, etc. Then they turned us loose in the shop to grind a finished product with a bit so dull it would have trouble drilling thru a soft block of wood! We spent the entire first day perfecting our drill bit sharpening skills verifying the finished product in a drill press going thru a 1" piece of plate steel.

The instructors rejected our efforts hour after hour until the final result was PERFECT. It didn't just have to drill thru the plate, it had to go thru with minimal effort and have the finished angles they were looking for. They even examined the chips and color of them.

To this day I can hand sharpen a drill bit as good as and usually better than any machine you can find, even pretty exotic ones I've seen over the years designed specifically for that purpose.

I've used some pretty expensive and fancy machines over the years, but it's sure difficult to beat older equipment (provided it was well maintained) for consistency and accuracy/good end result. Of course speed and how much product you can turn out, well, can't even come close to newer equipment in that respect.

As far as the 5140 rods, not overly fond of them in the pressed pin variety. I've seen enough of the early offshore efforts allow the wrist pins to walk out and get against the cylinders to avoid them. They made bushed versions back when they first became available, hopefully they will offer them again..........Cliff

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Every machine in that place, except for the Engine Dyno) was OLD WW-II stuff.
But it was solid, TRUE, and repeatable equipment.

LOVE that old equipment and what I was trained on WAY back in the early 1980's when I went to machinists school. I still remember my first day in class looking around at all that antiquated WWII or older equipment that looked like it should have been "mothballed" decades ago.

You walked in the door, sat down with about 30 other students and they handed everyone a drill bit. In great detail they explained EVERYTHING about a drill bit, or the "science" involved with the different angles, etc. Then they turned us loose in the shop to grind a finished product with a bit so dull it would have trouble drilling thru a soft block of wood! We spent the entire first day perfecting our drill bit sharpening skills verifying the finished product in a drill press going thru a 1" piece of plate steel.

The instructors rejected our efforts hour after hour until the final result was PERFECT. It didn't just have to drill thru the plate, it had to go thru with minimal effort and have the finished angles they were looking for. They even examined the chips and color of them.

To this day I can hand sharpen a drill bit as good as and usually better than any machine you can find, even pretty exotic ones I've seen over the years designed specifically for that purpose.

I've used some pretty expensive and fancy machines over the years, but it's sure difficult to beat older equipment (provided it was well maintained) for consistency and accuracy/good end result. Of course speed and how much product you can turn out, well, can't even come close to newer equipment in that respect.

As far as the 5140 rods, not overly fond of them in the pressed pin variety. I've seen enough of the early offshore efforts allow the wrist pins to walk out and get against the cylinders to avoid them. They made bushed versions back when they first became available, hopefully they will offer them again..........Cliff

The most accurate crank grinder we had was a pre-WW2 Storm Vulcan. I wonder if this would have been considered “crusty”?

[Steve C.]

Similar. My engine builders shop looked like a junkyard when you walked in the door and with a cluttered mess of paperwork and books on his desk.... except one special area set aside where he assembled the engines, that area was always clean and orderly.


.

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Every machine in that place, except for the Engine Dyno) was OLD WW-II stuff.
But it was solid, TRUE, and repeatable equipment.

LOVE that old equipment and what I was trained on WAY back in the early 1980's when I went to machinists school. I still remember my first day in class looking around at all that antiquated WWII or older equipment that looked like it should have been "mothballed" decades ago.

You walked in the door, sat down with about 30 other students and they handed everyone a drill bit. In great detail they explained EVERYTHING about a drill bit, or the "science" involved with the different angles, etc. Then they turned us loose in the shop to grind a finished product with a bit so dull it would have trouble drilling thru a soft block of wood! We spent the entire first day perfecting our drill bit sharpening skills verifying the finished product in a drill press going thru a 1" piece of plate steel.

The instructors rejected our efforts hour after hour until the final result was PERFECT. It didn't just have to drill thru the plate, it had to go thru with minimal effort and have the finished angles they were looking for. They even examined the chips and color of them.

Too bad they don’t teach like that anymore. Not all but a large percentage of the graduates of these tech schools come out thinking they’re master machinests but weren’t taught the basics and end up struggling.

[vidguy]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Every machine in that place, except for the Engine Dyno) was OLD WW-II stuff.
But it was solid, TRUE, and repeatable equipment.

LOVE that old equipment and what I was trained on WAY back in the early 1980's when I went to machinists school. I still remember my first day in class looking around at all that antiquated WWII or older equipment that looked like it should have been "mothballed" decades ago.

You walked in the door, sat down with about 30 other students and they handed everyone a drill bit. In great detail they explained EVERYTHING about a drill bit, or the "science" involved with the different angles, etc. Then they turned us loose in the shop to grind a finished product with a bit so dull it would have trouble drilling thru a soft block of wood! We spent the entire first day perfecting our drill bit sharpening skills verifying the finished product in a drill press going thru a 1" piece of plate steel.

The instructors rejected our efforts hour after hour until the final result was PERFECT. It didn't just have to drill thru the plate, it had to go thru with minimal effort and have the finished angles they were looking for. They even examined the chips and color of them.

To this day I can hand sharpen a drill bit as good as and usually better than any machine you can find, even pretty exotic ones I've seen over the years designed specifically for that purpose.

I've used some pretty expensive and fancy machines over the years, but it's sure difficult to beat older equipment (provided it was well maintained) for consistency and accuracy/good end result. Of course speed and how much product you can turn out, well, can't even come close to newer equipment in that respect.

As far as the 5140 rods, not overly fond of them in the pressed pin variety. I've seen enough of the early offshore efforts allow the wrist pins to walk out and get against the cylinders to avoid them. They made bushed versions back when they first became available, hopefully they will offer them again..........Cliff

Same EXACT thing I went through in the early 80's when I went to the NTMA Machinist Apprentice school! It was in an old closed Elementary School where they had set up the shops,. The place looked like a beat up old place but the shop was great. First day was identical.

"This is a drill bit"

Seeing the old grey Bridgeports and Clausings with the ways perfectly clean. The paint may have been scratched up but they were perfect. I was so fricken excited.

First thing they had us make after grinding the drill bit was a drill bit angle checker. Like this one. I think I still have mine somewhere. I left the industry by 1990 but remember well the instructor's fastidiousness about teaching us the importance of keeping the machines and the area around them clean and oiled. I worked in a Tool and Die Moldmaking shop where we made molds for IC frames etc.. In that shop we took 1/2 day every Friday to clean the shop. Beer afterwards.

[HWYSTR455]

Can't you have a press fit rod machined and bushed? Pretty sure I've had OE rods back in the day converted to float.

.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

they handed everyone a drill bit. In great detail they explained EVERYTHING about a drill bit, or the "science" involved with the different angles... ...We spent the entire first day perfecting our drill bit sharpening skills verifying the finished product in a drill press going thru a 1" piece of plate steel.

The instructors rejected our efforts hour after hour until the final result was PERFECT. It didn't just have to drill thru the plate, it had to go thru with minimal effort and have the finished angles they were looking for. They even examined the chips and color of them.

To this day I can hand sharpen a drill bit as good as and usually better than any machine you can find, even pretty exotic ones I've seen over the years designed specifically for that purpose.

Originally Posted by vidguy

Same EXACT thing I went through in the early 80's ...

..."This is a drill bit" ...

...First thing they had us make after grinding the drill bit was a drill bit angle checker.

You guys are KILLING me.

I had two years of "Auto Mechanics Curriculum", which included a bunch of "related" coursework. We got one unit of welding, one unit of drafting, one unit of Math, one unit of this, one unit of that...and one unit of machining.

What you describe about drill bits was just what was presented to me--including the instructor inspecting the chips we made after sharpening our drill bits. The way I remember, he was more interested in the evenness of length, and the curl of the two chips moreso than color--but maybe it was all three. Although I'm now into the Bifocal Era of my life, when my eyes were good I could sharpen a bit freehand WAY better than those crappy Drill Doctors, and better than the "professional re-sharpener" the company I worked for used. That bonehead couldn't put any back-clearance on the bit, so the bits pushed hard and promptly overheated. It got so bad that the company stopped resharpening bits smaller than 1/4 or 5/16, they just threw 'em in the scrap pile--and we went through THOUSANDS of smaller bits. I can still do the larger bits just fine, but the little ones give me some trouble.

I still have the three projects we were required to fabricate in school: A drill bit gauge, a drill-and-tap fixture, and a brass hammer. We were allowed to buy the handle for the hammer, so I got a little creative.

[Waiting on Photo]




The Drafting instructor was nuts. The school kept him on salary after his family was killed in some car-crash, but he "wasn't really there" any more. Poor bastard. Our first day of that course involved being taught the "PROPER" way to sharpen a pencil. After fifteen minutes (!!!) of instruction, every student lined-up at the hand-crank pencil sharpener, sharpened our pencils, and then presented the sharpened tips to the instructor for him to approve. It was very much like the drill-bit sharpening, this instructor took it just as seriously as the machining teacher. If the wood wasn't evenly cut away leaving the "lead" as a perfectly-formed cone, you went back and did it again. Some guys had seriously short "new" pencils by the end of class.

(The secrets are to insert the pencil into the sharpener so that it's centered--not tilted up or down, forward or backward to minimize "angular error" and then to slowly spin the pencil as you crank the handle, so angular error caused by not putting the pencil in the sharpener absolutely perfectly, is minimized.)

[t money]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Can't you have a press fit rod machined and bushed? Pretty sure I've had OE rods back in the day converted to float.

.

You have to have it done by the manufacture or if you have it done by a shop after purchase the total cost is the same or more the cost of the better 4030 H Beams. I think if eagle could do bushing for 339 99 you atrack a lot of people. Remember the eagles rods are a great improvement ther the RPM Rods. Eagle has 7/16 arp bolts. The RPM has arp 3/8 threw bolts and nuts

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

You guys are KILLING me.

I had two years of "Auto Mechanics Curriculum", which included a bunch of "related" coursework. We got one unit of welding, one unit of drafting, one unit of Math, one unit of this, one unit of that...and one unit of machining.

What you describe about drill bits was just what was presented to me--including the instructor inspecting the chips we made after sharpening our drill bits. The way I remember, he was more interested in the evenness of length, and the curl of the two chips moreso than color--but maybe it was all three. Although I'm now into the Bifocal Era of my life, when my eyes were good I could sharpen a bit freehand WAY better than those crappy Drill Doctors, and better than the "professional re-sharpener" the company I worked for used. That bonehead couldn't put any back-clearance on the bit, so the bits pushed hard and promptly overheated. It got so bad that the company stopped resharpening bits smaller than 1/4 or 5/16, they just threw 'em in the scrap pile--and we went through THOUSANDS of smaller bits. I can still do the larger bits just fine, but the little ones give me some trouble.

I still have the three projects we were required to fabricate in school: A drill bit gauge, a drill-and-tap fixture, and a brass hammer. We were allowed to buy the handle for the hammer, so I got a little creative.

[Waiting on Photo]




The Drafting instructor was nuts. The school kept him on salary after his family was killed in some car-crash, but he "wasn't really there" any more. Poor bastard. Our first day of that course involved being taught the "PROPER" way to sharpen a pencil. After fifteen minutes (!!!) of instruction, every student lined-up at the hand-crank pencil sharpener, sharpened our pencils, and then presented the sharpened tips to the instructor for him to approve. It was very much like the drill-bit sharpening, this instructor took it just as seriously as the machining teacher. If the wood wasn't evenly cut away leaving the "lead" as a perfectly-formed cone, you went back and did it again. Some guys had seriously short "new" pencils by the end of class.

(The secrets are to insert the pencil into the sharpener so that it's centered--not tilted up or down, forward or backward to minimize "angular error" and then to slowly spin the pencil as you crank the handle, so angular error caused by not putting the pencil in the sharpener absolutely perfectly, is minimized.)

In metal shop first day in class he gave us all a 1/2" drill bit and ground it flat right in front of us. Then showed us how to properly sharpen it from that. I still am good at it, I thought. Until I got around this old machinist at work and seen his drill chips. Asked him to give me a lesson. Now very good. His shop is full of old pre WWII Cincinnati milling machines and surface grinders. Lots of old school stuff that is dead on.
Its hard to get a lesson in the old school machines at our Community Collage. Its all CNC now.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Now, Mike, don’t let logic, reason and experience overwhelm supposition and ignorance.....

HA-HA!!

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

Can't you have a press fit rod machined and bushed? Pretty sure I've had OE rods back in the day converted to float.

.

Back in the early 70's I had a friends father who had a machine shop open up / clearance a set of SBC rods and ran them with no bushings. I turned that engine between 7500 and 8000 RPM and never had a problem.

Stan