[64speed]

I have gotten my quote from SST for my 6 speed swap and I got to thinking, for that same money I could run a Muncie with a gear vendors unit so my question is is anyone running one? How do you like it? I wouldn’t have to cut my floor so that’s a plus. Can you make it work in full automatic mode or do you have to use the toggle switch every time you shift gears?

[Half-Inch Stud]

Gear Vendors unit is shifting at the multiplied TQ location. Is a real shock treatment.


Just went throught the 4L80 Install pains to get Manual-shift OD. Hopefully soon can report on shift feel

[64speed]

Well the reason I asked is I got a kick in the teeth because I got told my name on the waiting list for the Legend was only about 6 more months out and there is no way I will have the money. I have started focusing on the engine build thinking the legend was never gonna happen and got the email today so I guess I’m screwed

[428goat]

I got the 5speed tko600 from SST and put it in my 67. Had to cut the floor but I have had the car for 25 years so I guess I could do with it what I wanted. Nice trans and SST is a good bunch to work with. 3.55 rear end and 2000 rpm at about 67 mph. Beats the Rpm I was turning with the Muncie.

[64speed]

What about the new Richmond five speed. I am getting conflicting information as to whether the stick will clear the bench seat. Some sources say the shifter is in the same location as the Muncie and some say it’s further back. Anyone know if it will fit a bench seat car

[HWYSTR455]

The Extreme TKO600 from American Powertrain is one of the easiest swaps out there, fits where a Muncie does, 1000 ft lbs capacity, and multiple shifter locations. No floor cutting.

.

[64speed]

Just got off the phone with American powertrain and they are the only ones streamlining the cases so they fit where a Muncie does without cutting. He said I might have to take a hammer to the floor but that about it. Also the swap is 2000 dollars cheaper than the T56 so I guess that’s the way I’ll go.

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Just got off the phone with American powertrain and they are the only ones streamlining the cases so they fit where a Muncie does without cutting. He said I might have to take a hammer to the floor but that about it. Also the swap is 2000 dollars cheaper than the T56 so I guess that’s the way I’ll go.

I plan on a 6 speed for my next build (Volvo Wagon with LS and 6 speed manual). That said, you will be happy with the TKO. I beat the ever-living snot out of mine on Power Tour and I only missed one shift as I blame me for that one(got a little happy with the pedal release).

If you had to pull the trigger today, the TKO will be an enormous upgrade from what ever your car has in it now.

[pokey1]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I have gotten my quote from SST for my 6 speed swap and I got to thinking, for that same money I could run a Muncie with a gear vendors unit so my question is is anyone running one? How do you like it? I wouldn’t have to cut my floor so that’s a plus. Can you make it work in full automatic mode or do you have to use the toggle switch every time you shift gears?

T56 Magnum... Yes it was expensive, yes it was a bit of work but yes it sure is fun. Original console is in the works to go back in..

[64speed]

Well it all comes down to want vs need. I want a 6 speed. Hell I want a 7 speed new GM transmission but I don’t need double overdrive especially when the 5th gear in the TKO is the same as 6th in the T56

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Well it all comes down to want vs need. I want a 6 speed. Hell I want a 7 speed new GM transmission but I don’t need double overdrive especially when the 5th gear in the TKO is the same as 6th in the T56

That's the same thing I told you a year ago when you first started contemplating overdrives.

And I'll say it again. Unless you're money bags, spending the extra money on a 6 speed with double overdrive for a typical fun street car is a waste for what you're doing. The TKO will do everything you could ever hope to do. One overdrive is all you need.

Spending another $2,000 to have a 5th gear with about a .84 overdrive is a lot of money for something you won't really use.

We had 2 different 6 speeds and daily drove them. I never used 5th gear for anything. It was an extra shift I didn't care for and found no need for it either. I routinely went from 4th to 6th.

Might be okay if you want to road race and you're on a course with a very long straight.....maybe, but we are talking a large professional style road course. On the street, I never used it.

[Formulajones]

To help aid in the decision making....or not.... I doubt you'd like the Muncie-gear vendor deal. Not that they are bad to deal with, but I see the Muncie as a weak link for spirited driving. But even more of a concern, your first gear multiplication is going to need to be carefully planned with the rear gear ratio for a pleasant cruiser.
To get even a 2.52 Muncie in a comfortable range you'll need at least 3.73 gears. Now take into account the Gear vendor only offers about a .78 overdrive. Drops the rear gear to about a 2.90, or in other words about 600 rpm cruise speed difference.

That's not much of an overdrive. The only time I look at the gear vendor unit is when someone has already spent a bunch of coin on a nice automatic and are looking for a little extra on the highway.

You get much better affect on both ends of the spectrum with a real 5 speed overdrive swap. Not only do you get a 2.87 first gear so you don't need a bunch of rear gear, but you also get a .64 overdrive. You can run 3.55's with that first gear and have snappy performance, or even 3.73's if you wish, but the .64 overdrive will drop cruise rpm about 1,000 rpm, it just goes to sleep.
You just can't get that kind of affect on both ends with a gear vendor, or even a steep first gear M22Z swap with a 2.73 rear gear.

[64speed]

I have 3.70s in the 9 inch I built with a 26 inch tall tire

[Formulajones]

That will work just fine with either 5 or 6 speed. Usually the gear I recommend with these transmissions. Nice all around performance, good 1st gear multiplication, and enough overdrive to knock it down to be comfortable on the highway.

Look at that with the Muncie and gear vendor for instance.

With a 26 inch tire you'll be turning about 3,000 rpm to go 60-ish mph. The gear vendor is only going to knock that down to about 2400 rpm for you. Now lets go at least 70 mph to keep up with traffic. Now you're right back up near 3,000 rpm again, with all the engine noise, sucking fuel, etc....
That's not much of an overdrive, matter of fact you can get that kind of cruise speed and rpm by just shoving a 3.08 gear out back and forget about overdrive, but then 1st gear sucks.

To even get close to what a 5 speed offers, you'd just about need an M22Z trans with something like a 2.95 first gear, or even a new ST10 with 2.88 first gear, then run a 3.08 gear out back, then put the gear vendor on back of that to knock another 600 rpm off the cruise speed. Then you're starting to get into the realm of 5 speed territory but it still won't have the snappy first gear performance and you're spending well over $6,000 to get there.

Much better off with a 5 speed. You get a 2.87 first gear, so even a set of 3.55's or 3.42's are going to be snappy, and you get a .64 overdrive so cruise speed at 70-75 mph will barely be 2,000 rpm. You get the best of both in one package.

[tom s]

I have a TKO600 in my 63 421 Lemans.I have a 3.90 in it now and with the TQ of the SD engine I REALLY think I could go to a 3.42 rear.22 years ago I started with a 4.56,went to a 4.10 and now the 3.90.And it has 28in tires!It has the OF cam in it.Has to be about the same weight as the 64.3.70s will be a good starting point.My 69 bird with a 455 has a TKO500.It has 3.31s in the back and works great with a 26in tire.It handles the 2.22 final gear great with all the TQ it has.It has the SPII came in it.FWIW,Tom

[Formulajones]

I've run them with 3.42's and 26 inch tires with small blocks that don't make a bunch of grunt and they drove just fine. Could lug them down pretty far without complaint and really didn't find the need to be downshifting all the time.

I'll be doing one shortly in our little 302 sbc with 3.55's out back and a 27" tire. It'll work fine.

[400 Lemans]

https://asheville.craigslist.org/pts...754283032.html Not to far from you.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

https://asheville.craigslist.org/pts...754283032.html Not to far from you.

Thanks for the link but the quote I got from American powertrain with warranty and driveshaft is only 3379 plus I need the special shifter for the bench seat but good looking out. I am excited about this part of the drive train conversion cause I was not looking forward to hacking up my pristine floors and I really wasn’t looking forward to that price tag.

[64speed]

I think I wanted more than needed the 6 speed because I am doing the best of everything in soooo many other facets of the build that I got sucked into the hype. I felt like I was “cheaping out” to put the five when I was building this aluminum headed roller torque monster and already had this way overkill 9 inch in the rear. As I posted in my thread about a more organized build I am beginning to realize where money is being wasted and where it’s not. I had a 63 impala in the early 2000s with a Richmond 6 speed which as you know is an entirely different animal but it got so many wow gee comments that I thought the 6 was the way to go. I had a 2002 Camaro with the T56 and loved it but that car was engineered for that transmission. I think I will be very happy with my choice. Especially if my fit is as promised

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Thanks for the link but the quote I got from American powertrain with warranty and driveshaft is only 3379 .

Hard to beat that price for an overdrive.

I just got another quote from them, with the only difference being I added their "Sure Shift" upgrade for higher rpm smoother shifts, where they go through with carbon fiber lined sincros, new shift fork pads and their race tolerances inside for another $600 and it still came in under $4000.

When the M23Z's are nearly $3000 alone, and you still aren't getting the benefits of an overdrive or even the first gear multipication, nor is it as strong, it's easy to see why the 5 speeds are the way to go.