[bluegoat65]

Having a problem with the valve seals staying on the guides. I have a set of the early E heads on my little 408. After a run they push off the guides and foul the plugs. Its not specific to an exhaust guide or intake. Its all of them. One specific is that they are smooth guides with no knurl. I have even gone to the extreme of slightly pricking the guides with a punch to see if that would grab and hold them. My next best guess is to high temp Red Loctite them to the guides. Any suggestions?

[mgarblik]

Yes, I can probably help you. First I need to know the style of seals you are using right now. All white teflon, Black with teflon ring, All black polyacrylate, steel jacket with blue teflon insert, (that's my recommendation) Then I need the most accurate caliper measurement you can get from the guide where the seal goes. Then we can go from there.

[bluegoat65]

Yes I use the steal jacketed blue viton with the small tension spring at the top. .485 guide diameter, .473 seal inside diameter. To be specific there from U S Seal Part VS485V. Guide height is perfect depth at .300. I run the Beehive springs. The seat shim for that spring is at the perfect height so it doesn t hold the seal away from its full depth at all. Nice firm fit.

[mgarblik]

Well, you answered my questions almost too well. That US seal is my "GO TO" seal when I have problems with them coming off. I have never had those come loose, especially with that kind of interference fit. Is there any evidence of something touching the jacket or lifting the seal off? Any chance one coil on the beehive spring is just catching the top of the valve seal at max lift? have used a super sharp center punch to stake metal shield valve seals to the guides a few times. Do the seals feel tight on the guide when you install them? I try to make sure I can not twist them at all once they are seated. Bit of a weird problem. If you try to go the locktite route, you will probably need the gel variety. I don't think regular red has enough viscosity to get the job done. If you can get everything clean and dry, this may sound crazy but I bet 3M weatherstrip adhesive, (gorilla snot) would hold them on. It would be really hard to clean off later, if required. Lets see if others have any ideas. Good luck.

[Formulas]

I had this issue on some heads i had guides replaced on they were smooth in the seal area and seals were lifting i used bit E in the picture with a small air driven pencile grinder and grooved the guide tops for the seals to grab on to

They dont have to be perfect or very deep just dont cut a direct path for oil to migrate i put 2 grooves on each guide 1 might do it

After that i refuse smooth top guides and go barbed

.

[bluegoat65]

Thanks Mike for giving up some of your time. I know you guys are jammin on "BB". Formulas I was giving that too some thought of grooving the guide also. I have a set of High Ports on another motor that have the barbed guides and I can see where that would make the difference. My thought on grooving them though was if I can find a UNC small finger die of that OD of the guide, tap it and literally thread the dam seal on. Am I reaching there? Plus I wouldn t be sending shavings flying.

[Formulas]

Never tried to thread
I did my heads disassembled
I wouldnt try to use loctite would it really bond to viton?
And better not get any on valve stem

[bluegoat65]

I think that might be why Mike suggested the 3M weather strip adhesive. "Made for rubber to steel". I would have to research its temp limitations before it breaks down and loses seal.

[Formulas]

Im suprized your E'head guides are smooth

And i think i would preffer mechanical retention over chemical

And it would probably be difficult to thread a seal down they usually dont like to turn and most likely distort them with pliers probably just knock them down if you do thread and you wouldnt have to make proper threads just enough to grab the seal i always coat the seal and guide with assy oil

[bluegoat65]

There the first edition from back in 98 I bout them. Wow time fly s by. I noticed smoke on startup some years ago and changed the seals then. They were fine, no lifting. But last year it was back and so this summer thought I would freshen the springs also. Thought maybe time for rings and bearings after 20 years. But static compression is still as good as it was when built and then I found this. Get them set and after one hard pull they pop and looks like small mosquito control rig out tail pipes. Fouls the plugs. Thanks for the help and listening guys. I ll let you know if it works out.

[BruceWilkie]

I'd use Right Stuff to "glue" them on. Getting them off might take a sharp knife and a stiff brush in die grinder or Dremel tool.

[bluegoat65]

That stuff is definitely desperation time. I do know my back is getting sore from hanging over the fenders. Thanks for the reminder that thats out there Bruce. By the time I need to change seals again, driving the guides out would probably be wise...lol.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by bluegoat65

That stuff is definitely desperation time. I do know my back is getting sore from hanging over the fenders. Thanks for the reminder that thats out there Bruce. By the time I need to change seals again, driving the guides out would probably be wise...lol.

I couldn't find a correct water neck for Pontiac upper radiator hose. So cleaned/scuffed hose and neck and a heavy coat of right stuff loosely clamped for day then tightened it up. Drove it to a car show next day. It's been on there for several years... Doesn't leak. I'll put proper neck on when it needs a new hose.

[taff2]

I had a couple of the Black poly seals come loose, punch marked the guide tops and pushed them back on ,no problem since.

[bluegoat65]

I finally got back to this problem and think I resolved it. I did in fact buy a 1/2"-20 die and thread the guide. Been a couple of weeks now and their holding. Appreciate everyone coming to aid. We may look like a dysfunctional group at times, but this proves were all in it together to keep each other running. Good luck racing this weekend and don t forget to check your "PPE".