[Ram Air I]

I have been thinking lately I will sell my 65 conv. I was wondering approximate value.
From PHS: Nightwatch blue, blue int., white top
GTO, 4bbl, auto, 3:23 posi, console, gauges, ps, pb, pa, tinted ws, am, back up lamps, deluxe wheel covers, maybe another minor option or two I cant remember.
no engine and the wrong trans, It is totally disassembled. It has a good body needs one lower quarter, one has been replaced, needs trunk patch but not entire pan, and a small patch in the pass floor.
The car has been sitting in this condition for 20 years inside in dry storage. Other life commitments kept it a low priority.
I also have a complete 65 WS I had planned on putting in this car. It is complete carbs to oil pan and water pump to trans and shifter. It has the original date coded plug wires on it. Original fuel pump but no pulleys or accessories. Factory paint with the ok-2 stamp still visible. When I bought it in the 80's I was told it came from a junk yard in the 70's and it had 26k on it. It even had the original foam on the carbs.
I'm thinking going ebay with these but was wondering approx value.
Thanks

[dhcarguy]

You need to post good clear pictures.

[Ram Air I]

I will try to get some up soon. I have a lot of junk stored around the car I need to move.

[Doug]

In the end you would end up with a non-original, non-numbers matching car with several sheetmetal structural repairs and "refreshed, repaired, replaced" components, mechanical and cosmetic. What would that car be worth TODAY?

I suggest that finished car would be in the 30-35k range. With that number in mind, how much is it going to take (labor, parts, etc) for you to get your car into that condition.

Here is a car on Ebay (no affiliation):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Pontia...9aaCSz&vxp=mtr

Except for the “real GTO” mystique, that car is about what you could expect to end up with. Personally, I don’t make much distinction between that cloned car and a real one, except in your situation, the Ebay car can be driven and enjoyed TODAY, not a year or years away. Your car is not worth the expense of getting it done in an expedited timeframe. Although the tripower/4spd aspect of your car is “money worthy”, your car probably has more potential as a restored-to-original candidate car.

Get an AMES catalog and other auto supply vendor pricing information and start making yourself a very long list of parts and prices on what you can realistically expect to have to buy and then add in LABOR. Deduct that total from the 30-35K number. The remainder is what your car is worth TODAY.

Good luck!

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by Doug

Get an AMES catalog and other auto supply vendor pricing information and start making yourself a very long list of parts and prices on what you can realistically expect to have to buy and then add in LABOR. Deduct that total from the 30-35K number. The remainder is what your car is worth TODAY.

Good luck!

I disagree - the car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it- period. In an extreme example, what if you had two former owners of the car competing with each other in an attempt to buy it back? One of them might be willing to pay $100k for the thing based on sentimental reasons. This is an extreme example, but there are a lot of other factors that could increase competition for the car and drive the price up significantly.

This is a highly desirable year (1965) and bodystyle (convertible) and I wouldn't be surprised if someone was willing to pay more than the amount the 'formula' above would spit out for it.

If we were talking about a green/green 4 door '68 bonneville in this case, your formula would result in a negative value which would require the owner to pay someone thousands of dollars just to take his car away (when in reality, you'd probably only have to pay someone $100 to haul it off)!

[rsavage]

I would guess (without the benefit of pictures and details) $18-22,000 with the engine and trans, if it has seats and good glass. It is a 65 convertible which, as previously mentioned, highly desirable. Done - $50,000 or so+ to the right buyer.

[John V.]

My '64 GTO convert was in a similar disassembled condition for about 25 years. Finally began the resto 2 years ago.

Main difference I see, mine is an original 4 spd car. I personally have never had an interest in an auto trans GTO, so that would devalue it for me.

Converting to the 4 spd probably would help value although numbers guys would probably be disinterested.

Mine has also been transformed to a Tripower, although built with the 4 bbl, mine had the Tripower installed at some point prior to it being purchased off a used car lot in Reno in early '66. Doesn't make it any more authentic, just that I chose to restore it with the Tripower intake that was in it rather than go back to a 4 bbl configuration.

I have no doubt that I have already spent more than I could sell it for when finished. But that matters not a whit to me, since I will own this car to the day I die.

I agree with bdk 1976, it is worth what somebody will pay.

I won't try to guess what that will be. In my case, I am sure financially I would have been better off selling my disassembled car if I was only interested in maximizing my ROI (what I could get vs. what it cost when I bought it). But my only regret now is that I should not have waited as long as I did to start the resto and/or I should have begged/borrowed/stolen a nicely restored '64 25 years ago. That would have been smarter but I settled for the one needing resto because that's all I could afford at that time.

I also wonder if I should have cut mine loose and bought one of the very nicely restored '64s that have appeared in this forum and were offered for sale. I learned of them after I was in deep so wasn't in the cards for me.

Just some random thoughts for you. Good luck whatever you decide.

[Ram Air I]

Thanks for the opinions. Keep em coming.
I whole heartedly agree it will bring what someone wants to pay. I am just looking for a ballpark estimate of what that might be.
I'll try to get some pics in the near future.

[Doug]

".....the car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it...."
".....it will bring what someone wants to pay....."

Duh?? Astounding logic!

If a 52 year old car has been sitting obscured in a garage for over 20 years and it's original motor and transmission are gone, there is a very slim chance that there is anyone that would have enough of a sentimental value for that particular car to justify the cost and expense of rehabilitating the car. And, after 20 years or so, how would that person become aware the "car" still existed. Or, how much of an effort would the owner need to be make to identify and communicate to that potential buyer that the car still existed?

Likewise, with a motor that was pulled out of a junkyard car in the 1970's, it is likely the junkyard car was substantially damaged and doesn't even exist today. And, after 47 years or so, if there is a current owner of that junkyard car, how would that person become aware the "motor" still existed, or how much of an effort would the current motor owner need to be make to identify and communicate to that particular person that the motor still existed?

The car and motor for sale are not complimentary to each other and are worth only as much as their stand alone values are as separate pieces. Putting the motor in the car results in a "clone" GTO. Putting the motor in any GTO car other than the original junkyard car creates a "clone" GTO.

The “complete” motor with all of its components (including tranny) having date code numbers (and other identifiers) matching is more valuable than a comparable motor that doesn’t have date code numbers matching components (an incomplete“ engine). The “complete” engine would be somewhat more valuable to someone who needs it to use in a date code numbers matching GTO. However, the likelihood of finding someone needing the “complete” engine is pretty remote.

Pending much more detailed information, I think the car and motor are worth between 12K and 18K.

To clear the air I would suggest that since you have the PHS info on the car’s history of original sale, previous ownership(s), etc. you could advertise it for sale at a reasonably inflated price and see if anybody shows up with a “sentimental” feeling for the car (or motor).

[Ram Air I]

Originally Posted by Doug

".....the car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it...."
".....it will bring what someone wants to pay....."

Duh?? Astounding logic!


Pending much more detailed information, I think the car and motor are worth between 12K and 18K.

Thanks for the sarcasm.
I do however actually appreciate your opinion on potential value. Thanks
I believe the comments about sentimentality was not intended to mean that a prior owner would surface. But instead someone that owned one like it, or a friend/relative/neighbor did, or my car is one of their favorite color combos is what could create sentimentality and cause the bids to go higher.
Maybe I'll throw in my set of Hurst wheels to sweeten the deal.
Currently I am leaning towards putting everything on ebay.

[Doug]

RAM AIR 1,

No disrespect meant on my earlier comments.

Fifty three years ago I bought my first GTO new in Feb-1965. 4spd/charcoal blue. The 65 is the prettiest of them all (dark colors best). Obviously I have a sentimental attachment to the 65’s.

Judging from your stable of cars and family background I see you are a Pontiac guy and probably have a pretty good sense of what it takes to restore a car. I’ll offer further comments for, if nothing else, to perhaps help you focus in on determining an asking price for you car.

I will observe that your car sounds like it was originally bought as a "luxury cruiser" car rather than a tire burner. To me, the addition of a tripower/4spd seems to be inconsistent.

I sort of look at the car and the motor as separate items to be estimated on their individual pieces/parts basis.

First off, the car “is what it is” and whatever it takes to repair, replace, recondition can be estimated by pricing parts and labor. (brakes, fuel, upholstery, electrical, cooling, heating, body work, painting, suspension, glass, etc) That estimating is a very challenging thing for both a buyer and a seller to do.

For the motor and tranny, as a numbers matching package unit, they have a value which is more than the individual parts are. At a high end I estimate it at about $4500 as is (no pulleys, etc)

I look at the value of it in separate pieces. I estimate it at between $3500-$4000. For instance, considering the age and inactivity, at best you have a “builder” tripower setup that is going to require hundreds of dollars of labor and parts to rebuild it and make right. I estimate your setup is worth about $1,400 as is. (much less if throttle plates are stuck).

I estimate the tranny and shifter as a unit is worth about $1400 (new prices: shifter and handle $470, linkage and mount plate $210). That leaves about $800 for a used tranny, assuming a used one and yours are of comparable condition.

You haven’t indicated but I assume you don’t have clutch linkage. Ames has a set of linkage and spring for about $270.

Assuming the motor or any other motor used in the car will need rebuild, that cost is about the same whatever it is. I note you have no pulleys so that is going to cost you hundreds of dollars (and headaches finding them). Ames has a set for $369.

The bell housing and dust cover is about $225 from Ames. Since you have them, that is the value to you.

Your “low mileage” pressure plate, disc and throwout bearing MAY be okay after sitting for 40 some years. Ames has a set for $250.

The flywheel MAY be okay but may need resurfacing (about $75). A good new flywheel (PRW-1645570) and pilot shaft bearing can be had for about $250.

To convert an automatic car console (if you have it) to manual shifter console will require about $500 worth of parts (console cover plate, boot, bezel, trim plate, etc).

Just food for thought. Good luck!

P.S. Where are you in KY?



Using the below listed information from Collector Car Review and calculating adjustments for add-ons and deductions for various options and varying condition status for a 1965 PONTIAC GTO 389-335hp (8cyl-4V) Automatic, the valuations are:

#5-- 9,030
#4--21,600
#3--37,980
#2--52,440
#1--74,370

COLLECTOR CAR VALUE
-1965 PONTIAC GTO 389-335hp (8cyl-4V) AT
CONDITION #5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Convertible 7525 18000 31650 43700 61975
2Dr Hardtop 7425 16575 28025 37450 52425
2dr Sedan 6700 14925 25000 33375 46700

ADD:
389-360hp (V-83x2V) 15%
4spd manual trans 5%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 5%

DEDUCT:
3spd manual transmission 5%
Manual steering 5%
Bench seat 5%
Column shift 5%
Non-tach dash 5%

Condition Guidelines
#1 Excellent: A close to perfect original or a very well restored vehicle. Generally a body-off restoration, but a well done body-on restoration that has been extensively detailed may qualify. The vehicle is stunning to look at and any flaws are trivial and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, NOS, or excellent quality reproductions. Note: cost no object concours restorations should be considered 1+ condition.

#2 Very Good: An extremely presentable vehicle showing minimal wear, or a well restored vehicle. Runs and drives smooth and tight. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas (chassis not required) have been fully detailed. Beautiful to look at but clearly below a #1 vehicle.

#3 Good: Presentable inside and out with some signs of wear. Not detailed but very clean. Body should be straight and solid with no apparent rust and absolutely no rust-through anywhere. Shiny, attractive paint but may have evidence of minor fading or checking or other imperfections. Runs and drives well. May need some minor mechanical or cosmetic work but is fully usable and enjoyable as is.

#4 Fair: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree.

#5 Poor: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run. Not roadworthy.

Parts or Salvage: Incomplete vehicle most useful for parts. Generally, take 50-60% of the #5 value

[Ram Air I]

Doug,

Thank you for your very detailed and analytical response. Also, I appreciate all the effort you put into it to help me close in on a dollar figure!
Yes, I have been around cars and Pontiacs specifically my entire life due to my father being a Pontiac dealer. I have the skills to restore this car myself if I had the time, patience, and money. I am short on all of those. I have rebuilt engines, done body and paint work, electrical work and so on in the past so I know quite well what is required to bring this GTO back to its former glory.
I love 65's also. My favorite color is nightwatch blue but blue charcoal is awesome too.
I fully intended to post pics but I have been too busy. I think I will put the car and engine (separately) on ebay and let the market determine the exact value.
I live in central Key.
Thanks again!

Originally Posted by Doug

RAM AIR 1,

No disrespect meant on my earlier comments.

Fifty three years ago I bought my first GTO new in Feb-1965. 4spd/charcoal blue. The 65 is the prettiest of them all (dark colors best). Obviously I have a sentimental attachment to the 65’s.

Judging from your stable of cars and family background I see you are a Pontiac guy and probably have a pretty good sense of what it takes to restore a car. I’ll offer further comments for, if nothing else, to perhaps help you focus in on determining an asking price for you car.

I will observe that your car sounds like it was originally bought as a "luxury cruiser" car rather than a tire burner. To me, the addition of a tripower/4spd seems to be inconsistent.

I sort of look at the car and the motor as separate items to be estimated on their individual pieces/parts basis.

First off, the car “is what it is” and whatever it takes to repair, replace, recondition can be estimated by pricing parts and labor. (brakes, fuel, upholstery, electrical, cooling, heating, body work, painting, suspension, glass, etc) That estimating is a very challenging thing for both a buyer and a seller to do.

For the motor and tranny, as a numbers matching package unit, they have a value which is more than the individual parts are. At a high end I estimate it at about $4500 as is (no pulleys, etc)

I look at the value of it in separate pieces. I estimate it at between $3500-$4000. For instance, considering the age and inactivity, at best you have a “builder” tripower setup that is going to require hundreds of dollars of labor and parts to rebuild it and make right. I estimate your setup is worth about $1,400 as is. (much less if throttle plates are stuck).

I estimate the tranny and shifter as a unit is worth about $1400 (new prices: shifter and handle $470, linkage and mount plate $210). That leaves about $800 for a used tranny, assuming a used one and yours are of comparable condition.

You haven’t indicated but I assume you don’t have clutch linkage. Ames has a set of linkage and spring for about $270.

Assuming the motor or any other motor used in the car will need rebuild, that cost is about the same whatever it is. I note you have no pulleys so that is going to cost you hundreds of dollars (and headaches finding them). Ames has a set for $369.

The bell housing and dust cover is about $225 from Ames. Since you have them, that is the value to you.

Your “low mileage” pressure plate, disc and throwout bearing MAY be okay after sitting for 40 some years. Ames has a set for $250.

The flywheel MAY be okay but may need resurfacing (about $75). A good new flywheel (PRW-1645570) and pilot shaft bearing can be had for about $250.

To convert an automatic car console (if you have it) to manual shifter console will require about $500 worth of parts (console cover plate, boot, bezel, trim plate, etc).

Just food for thought. Good luck!

P.S. Where are you in KY?



Using the below listed information from Collector Car Review and calculating adjustments for add-ons and deductions for various options and varying condition status for a 1965 PONTIAC GTO 389-335hp (8cyl-4V) Automatic, the valuations are:

#5-- 9,030
#4--21,600
#3--37,980
#2--52,440
#1--74,370

COLLECTOR CAR VALUE
-1965 PONTIAC GTO 389-335hp (8cyl-4V) AT
CONDITION #5 #4 #3 #2 #1
2dr Convertible 7525 18000 31650 43700 61975
2Dr Hardtop 7425 16575 28025 37450 52425
2dr Sedan 6700 14925 25000 33375 46700

ADD:
389-360hp (V-83x2V) 15%
4spd manual trans 5%
Air conditioning 10%
Power windows 5%

DEDUCT:
3spd manual transmission 5%
Manual steering 5%
Bench seat 5%
Column shift 5%
Non-tach dash 5%

Condition Guidelines
#1 Excellent: A close to perfect original or a very well restored vehicle. Generally a body-off restoration, but a well done body-on restoration that has been extensively detailed may qualify. The vehicle is stunning to look at and any flaws are trivial and not readily apparent. Everything works as new. All equipment is original, NOS, or excellent quality reproductions. Note: cost no object concours restorations should be considered 1+ condition.

#2 Very Good: An extremely presentable vehicle showing minimal wear, or a well restored vehicle. Runs and drives smooth and tight. Needs no mechanical or cosmetic work. All areas (chassis not required) have been fully detailed. Beautiful to look at but clearly below a #1 vehicle.

#3 Good: Presentable inside and out with some signs of wear. Not detailed but very clean. Body should be straight and solid with no apparent rust and absolutely no rust-through anywhere. Shiny, attractive paint but may have evidence of minor fading or checking or other imperfections. Runs and drives well. May need some minor mechanical or cosmetic work but is fully usable and enjoyable as is.

#4 Fair: runs and drives OK but needs work throughout the vehicle. Body shows signs of wear or previous restoration work. Any rust should be minimal and not in any structural areas. Cosmetics, body, and mechanics all need work to some degree.

#5 Poor: In need of complete restoration, but is complete and not a rust bucket beyond repair. May or may not run. Not roadworthy.

Parts or Salvage: Incomplete vehicle most useful for parts. Generally, take 50-60% of the #5 value

[geeteeohguy]

I'll add this: cars in pieces sell for a fraction of what a 'roller' would sell for. If you spent some time putting the car together, even mostly mocked-up, so that it resembled a complete car, it would be much more marketable. It would probably pull twice the money, although not a lot. It comes down to the cost of restoration these days.....very easy to spend 10k on a car like yours, and end up putting 50-70k into it and ending up with a 40k car. Most simply buy the 40k car to begin with and drive it into the sunset.