[gtobird]

I have a repop ram air setup for my 68 bird that I bought a few years ago. I'm finally getting around to installing it. I have a spare set of the original GM "closed" hood inserts that I was going to open up and use.

Now I see the parts place has a set of open inserts available. Has anyone bought a pair of these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-69-Pont...JXVhFm&vxp=mtr


I'm wondering how good of a fit they are and how true they are to the originals. I would probably waste several hours getting the cutouts correct on the originals I have and I really hate to cut them up anyway.

Bye the way, if anyone has opened up a set of originals, I would like to know how you did it. My plan was to drill some holes from the backsisde and then use a combination of a dremel tool with a small cutting wheel and sanding drum, die grinder and angle die grinder with a 2" sanding disc. Looks like a lot of screwing around with plenty of room to err and cut too much.

Regards,
OJ

[68tpls400]

I opened up a set of originals with a dremel, and yes a bunch of screwing around, but turned out nice.

Keep in mind that most repop scoops only fit repop hoods. (and vice-versa) They hardly fit at all on an original hood. I bought a set of originals to open up.

You don't really say if your hood is repop or original.

[gtobird]

My hood is an original GM. The fit is what I was concerned about.

Originally Posted by 68tpls400

I opened up a set of originals with a dremel, and yes a bunch of screwing around, but turned out nice.

Keep in mind that most repop scoops only fit repop hoods. (and vice-versa) They hardly fit at all on an original hood. I bought a set of originals to open up.

You don't really say if your hood is repop or original.

[TedRamAirII]

I believe all of the original open scoops were modified at the dealer that took them out, ground out the closed out portion, then maybe painted them and reinstalled. So taking original scoops and cleaning them out would be fine. At least you KNOW that will fit. ; )

I had a 67 GTO at one time and found a hood scoop at a swap meet that had been ground from the rear so that the slats were still there, but let air in. Pretty cool and you had to look close to see that it was functional.

[Squidward]

I have a set of open inserts for my 67 FB. I wanted closed scoops, but the local resto retailer got me the wrong ones. When I unpacked them at home, I thought "eh... kinda cool", and kept them. They fit my repop hood fine.

The non-Pontiac crowd thinks they are cool. The Pontiac crowd looks at them and the rest of the car with an occasionally more critical eye. I have no ram air setup. But it is nice to see inside the hood for air cleaner clearance, etc.

[RA1John]

FWIW...

Factory orig. Ram Air Firebirds were delivered to dealer with baffle, shroud, seals & open scoops in trunk.
There was a unique casting for open scoops.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by RA1John

FWIW...

Factory orig. Ram Air Firebirds were delivered to dealer with baffle, shroud, seals & open scoops in trunk.
There was a unique casting for open scoops.

So the instructions 9792991 that read Step #3. Modify hood ornaments supplied in the package by cutting out and removing the simulated grille as shown if figures #6 and #7. are bogus? If they had open scoops, why would they instruct the dealer prep tech to modify them?


http://firstgenfirebird.org/f-a-q/ra...eets-for-1968/

[gtobird]

I saw a copy of the document in the link you provided some time ago. I've always wondered if the document was a generic description of how to install the RA setup and may have not been entirely accurate for actual RA cars that came with the setup supplied in the trunk. Let me make my case. When you look through the document, it shows replacement of the standard 4 barrel air cleaner. While the RA setup came in the trunk, did the RA cars actually have another air cleaner on them when they shipped? Moreover, if you look closely, the exhaust manifolds that are shown on the engine are the log type, not the Ram Air long branch. Last point.... Would GM would have told a dealer to cut out the hood scoop inserts themselves? The inserts would have to be repainted most of the time to have them look decent.

I think it's more likely this document was meant to be a generic description of how to do the install of a Ram Air setup on any 400 car. GM may have also used it for the ones that came from the factory as Ram Air cars, even though those particular inserts shipped already cutout.

Two different part numbers for the inserts would provide solid evidence that they were open, but even if GM only published on part number, I could see that still being feasible. The ram air car count was low enough that they have not made a replacement "open" insert available and just let the purchaser cut out the insert as illustrated in the diagram.

All this to say.... I'm open minded on this one. If I've learned anything about our cars, it's that it's hard to prove anything as being 100% correct because back then, there were lots of exceptions.

Regards,
OJ.... Happy 4th of July weekend to all and God Bless America

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

So the instructions 9792991 that read Step #3. Modify hood ornaments supplied in the package by cutting out and removing the simulated grille as shown if figures #6 and #7. are bogus? If they had open scoops, why would they instruct the dealer prep tech to modify them?


http://firstgenfirebird.org/f-a-q/ra...eets-for-1968/

[rslarb]

I had a new 69 GTO with standard 350hp. I went through the dealer to get open hood scoops, and when they arrived they were open and they were also fiber glass.. That was in 1969..

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by rslarb

I had a new 69 GTO with standard 350hp. I went through the dealer to get open hood scoops, and when they arrived they were open and they were also fiber glass.. That was in 1969..

There were no open scoops until the Ram Air II models came out, 1968 RAI cars would be all closed, Part 9777957/8 and Early RAII, open ones would be modified at the dealer. Then a part number 9794283/4 came out that was open, as all 68 RAII and 69 RAIV. I'm talking Firebird, I ASSUME GTO would be the same idea, but different part numbers.

[rohrt]

Is there any reason to keep a set of closed scoops if you plan to to go the RA route? Why would you ever go back?

[TedRamAirII]

[QUOTE=gtobird;5597044]I saw a copy of the document in the link you provided some time ago. I've always wondered if the document was a generic description of how to install the RA setup and may have not been entirely accurate for actual RA cars that came with the setup supplied in the trunk. Let me make my case. When you look through the document, it shows replacement of the standard 4 barrel air cleaner. While the RA setup came in the trunk, did the RA cars actually have another air cleaner on them when they shipped? Moreover, if you look closely, the exhaust manifolds that are shown on the engine are the log type, not the Ram Air long branch. Last point.... Would GM would have told a dealer to cut out the hood scoop inserts themselves? The inserts would have to be repainted most of the time to have them look decent.

I think it's more likely this document was meant to be a generic description of how to do the install of a Ram Air setup on any 400 car. GM may have also used it for the ones that came from the factory as Ram Air cars, even though those particular inserts shipped already cutout.

Two different part numbers for the inserts would provide solid evidence that they were open, but even if GM only published on part number, I could see that still being feasible. The ram air car count was low enough that they have not made a replacement "open" insert available and just let the purchaser cut out the insert as illustrated in the diagram.

All this to say.... I'm open minded on this one. If I've learned anything about our cars, it's that it's hard to prove anything as being 100% correct because back then, there were lots of exceptions.

Regards,
OJ.... Happy 4th of July weekend to all and God Bless America [/QUOTE

Yes. Could go a lot of ways. All RA1 cars were closed, with a regular air cleaner intact. When RAII came to the dealer, the scoops were closed, (along with a regular air cleaner assembly) but needed to be "opened" hence the directions to "open" the scoops (closed) that were provided in the "kit". The lucky owner then ended up with a set of scoops that were closed along with the OPEN ones in the hood, or the dealer, prep guy, parts dept or scrap pile ended up with the closed scoops. The illustrations were for instruction purposes. My left head/long branch RA manifold does not have any stove pipe on it for any hot air hose, but I can imagine anyone that ever worked on it, took it off and trashed it because IF it was there, it served no purpose....OR they (Pontiac) knew that it would not be needed and therefore never installed in the first place. If the Car came with a RA air cleaner already, it should run OK without the hood pan installed, there was plenty of room to get air to it. My old mentor (RIP) worked at a Pontiac Dealer in 1966 as a new car prep tech and I asked him about the 1966 RA GTO with the open scoop and RA pan. He said he NEVER saw one, ever. So he wondered how so many were out there, claiming to be OEM?

[TedRamAirII]

Ahh, forgot to say that my hood scoops look like they were opened up by a dealer tech, grind marks and uneveness. I would imagine they would have to have been painted afterwards depending on how happy they guy was grinding on them. If he only ground the back side, he could get away with it.

[RocktimusPryme]

I can tell you I just bought a set of open scoops from Ames a couple months ago. They were just closed ones they had opened up. Honestly I wasnt thrilled with the quality.

[gke60]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I can tell you I just bought a set of open scoops from Ames a couple months ago. They were just closed ones they had opened up. Honestly I wasnt thrilled with the quality.

I had the same problem with scoops from another vendor, man where they rough, took some time to clean them up.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by gke60

I had the same problem with scoops from another vendor, man where they rough, took some time to clean them up.

I didnt have time. I got them two days before I was deploying. I just gave them to the body shop that is painting my car while Im gone. Hopefully once painted they look a little better.

[redbird68]

I just received a pair of open scoops last week from Classic Industries. look real nice. will be installed on a repop hood, do not know fit quality yet, but the scoops look like good pieces.

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by redbird68

I just received a pair of open scoops last week from Classic Industries. look real nice. will be installed on a repop hood, do not know fit quality yet, but the scoops look like good pieces.

Any chance you could post some close up pictures and report how well they fit? Are these metal?

[redbird68]

sure can, but it might be awhile. inserts are still in a box and hood is not on car yet, paint/body work is just starting. when available, i will post pics showing fitment

the inserts are metal