[pontibeast]

I will keep the background here short as I started a thread in the Lobby about the damage that occurred. My mechanic is in the process of installing a 455 into my Lemans that I had bought with only dyno time on it since rebuild. I had decided to put in a stump puller HR and solid rollers after doing a ton of research on cams and the 268H that was in it when I bought it didn't seem like a good choice. This ended saving me some serious pain as when the mechanic went to swap cams found that two of the cam bearings had really bad grooves worn into them and the cam bearings had to be replaced. I need to get some advice on how to proceed from hear. The mechanic suggested replacing the cam bearings and having the rod and main bearings checked as well which I plan on doing. What else should I do in addition to this if anything? Also if anyone can give me an idea of what it should cost labor wise to remove the cast rods and have new forged rods balanced and installed. The cast rods were the only thing I was worried about in this engine and now I am thinking that since I am going to be getting into the bearings maybe it would save me some money on the labor to install new rods. This is a 73 standard bore 455 with 6X-8 heads that have been ported to 263/220 and were milled to 90cc's to get a 9.78 SVR. It has forged pistion but cast rods that were measured and prepped and had ARP rods bolts added. To add to my confusion I just bought a solid cam that I was going to save for a future 428 build but since my mechanic hasn't put the stump puller in I can pick which one to install now. The HR is a stump puller 230/236 and lift of 590/592. The solid hydraulic cam specs are
Int. 290 adv. 255 @ .050 160 @ .200 .360 lobe lift .540 lift w/ 1.5 rr.

Exh. 295 adv. 260 @ .050 164 @ .200 .370 lobe lift .555 lift w/ 1.5 rr.

LSA 108. With the ported heads I am using a set of Hooker super comp ceramic coated headers 1 3/4 to an H pipe 2 1/2" with Flowmaster series 30 mufflers. Trans is a TH400 with a Continental 3000 stall converter. If the solid is going to make a lot more power I will put that in as it was broken in by a reputable Pontiac shop using Brad Penn oil with additive and was run in using a fast idle that was varied for 30 minutes. Sorry this is so long and a lot to be covered but any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.

[WARPed]

I am a strong proponent of forged rods in any Pontiac motor short of a stone stock application - and even then I would dump the cast rods if money allows.

[Squidward]

Balance will run you around $200-ish. If you are having the shop remove the rotating assemby, then there will be some more labor charge. Checking new rods/fitting to pistons, then there is some more cost.

So if you go with forged rods of the RPM family tree, you will be $300-400 deep in parts cost there. Using same rings saves you some, but you will probably need to drop another $80-150-ish on bearings, because I couldn't imagine re-using the rod bearings with new rods. So with parts and labor, I'm gonna bet cost will run into $1k.

[pontibeast]

I forgot to add that the oil pump pickup screen had about half of it covered in Vaseline. The mechanic said that some old school guys fill the pump with Vaseline as it help get oil pressure up immediately. Don't know how or if this is a problem but can anyone tell me if this is safe to leave in or should I pull the pump and try to get that crap out. Thanks again.

[rexs73gto]

If you have any kind of metal in the engine which you will from the bad cam bearings you need to pull your oil pump out take it apart & clean it real good. Never leave an oil pump in any engine if you have any kind of bearing damage. The metal is so fine you may not see all of it but it will be there & it will cause all kinds of damage to the bearings if you leave it in. Also you need to pull the assy. completely apart & wash & clean each & every inch of that engine as the fine metal is now in there & you need to get it out so it won't do any more damage to your new parts. This I know from damage to my own engine when I did the wrong thing by leaving some of the old parts in the engine when a cam went away on me. About 100 miles down the road I had to rebuild the entire engine from junk left in the engine doing it that way. Engines need to be clean , so PLEAS it will cost you a few extra dollars but believe me it will save you a lot down the road, well, at least 100 miles down the road. Also don't just pour brake clean in the pump to clean it , take it apart & clean each & every part by itself. If your shop have a wash tank for cleaning blocks don't just rely on it , wash it with Dawn dish soap & hot water if you can & then clean it good & rinse it until you get good clean water from your block. Don't forget to wash the heads with dawn dish soap to & rinse good too.

[pontibeast]

With all the Vaseline on the screen I am thinking a lot, if not most of the metal is caught in the pump or on the screen. But I see where you are coming from and some extra cash and time now will most likely save me some big headaches down the road. I have been wanting to put a 455 in this car since 2001 when I bought it and the last thing I want is to have an engine failure anytime soon. I guess if I am paying to pull the assembly it shouldn't be to much cash to swap the rods with forged. I am really high over budget so I am going to use RPM rods, anyone have good/bad to say about them?

[Squidward]

Ah, vaseline...

Yes, I was told that trick many years ago (80's). I tried it, too. Unfortunately, engine was installed and fired up in single digit weather. This caused vaseline to chunk up, and block oil pump suction. I found this out on initial startup when I had zero oil pressure. I shut it off, and knew almost immediately what caused it. A little time heating up the pump next to a space heater got the vaseline out.

Using a 1/2" drill running ccw with priming tool is WAY better.

I am using RPM 5140 rods in my current 400 build. You would probably be better served by the 4340 rods depending on your power levels. Butler and others sell them, but I'm pretty sure they are sourced from RPM and repackaged as individual brands. I have a set of Tomahawk rods in my 350 that are RPM rods. I have no complaints so far.

As far as cam bearings, what really big grooves are worn in? Maybe it's just a gouge from dragging a cam out and catching a lobe, gear, etc. on the bearing. If that's the case, then you can be pretty sure that it's not a matter of catastrophic crap spread throughout the engine. For that I would just let the shop change out the bearing and move on.

If you plan on having the rotating assembly pulled for balancing, then yes, might as well make sure your oil passages are clean.

[rohrt]

You might want to investigate your piston pins. See if they are the heavy 200 gram pins. If so you could add some performance with lighter pins.

Make sure your oil pump is the 60psi pump.

[steve25]

Your 455 will rev up a good amount faster with the lighter aftermarket Rods and the second Benifit is less load / stress for any givin rpm on the non ductile iron standard main caps

[pontibeast]

Originally Posted by rohrt

You might want to investigate your piston pins. See if they are the heavy 200 gram pins. If so you could add some performance with lighter pins.

Make sure your oil pump is the 60psi pump.

Oil pump is a Melling M54DS which as far as I could research is a 60psi pump

[WARPed]

Originally Posted by pontibeast

Oil pump is a Melling M54DS which as far as I could research is a 60psi pump

Yes it is, and as others have post the Vaseline is an old trick that worked well so no worries about that but you need to clean everything!!!!! There will be stuff you will not see and it will bite you in the a$$ in short order, learned that lesson the hard way in the early days

[gtofreek]

No need at all to pack the oil pump with grease or Vaseline. Just lube it up with some oil when cleaning it out, and it will pick up oil just fine.

The RPM rods are fine, but you need to have the big end checked for size, and the little end honed to .001"-.0014" press fit. The big ends are usually small on these rods, and need to be honed a little, generally. They are usually about .001" too small. The small end finish is horribly rough, with too much press fit, so they need to be honed. They are quite a bit lighter than factory cast rods also, so crank will have to be re-balanced.

[lust4speed]

I've found the same thing as Paul on the RPM rods. Once they are checked and put into spec (never found a set correct out of the box), they work well.

Why would anyone want to add Vaseline to the Pontiac oil pump? The pickup screen and gears are below the oil level in the pan, and the pump body fills with oil as soon as the oil is poured to the crankcase. Manual priming takes the oil already in the pump and pushes it into the lifter galleries and bearing passages. If anything, a thick coating of Vaseline on the pickup screen might limit the free flow of oil into the pump body. You have to ask yourself if you would pack your hydraulic lifters full of Vaseline beforehand because that's where a lot of it is going to end up when the pump starts turning.

Cam bearings are probably the most forgiving area inside an engine, and they continue function properly even when abused. Any possibility of photos? A couple groves in the bearing would be from trash in the oil system, and the culprit is either harmlessly embedded in the bearing Babbitt or flushed out into the pan.

[pontibeast]

Yeah I am going to get pics either Monday or Tuesday depending on which day I can have a machine shop picked out. Ueah, I have worked on a number of 5.0 Ford Mustang engines and have never seen this before. My best guess is this was done by an old school guy without a lot of Pontiac experience but that is just a WAG on my part. The scary part to me is that if the cam bearings are as bad as these seem to build how are the other bearings. Hope to get pics and have it at the machine shop this week for some answers.

[Squidward]

Put the oil pump in the oven. It will melt and run out. Or use a propane torch.

[pontibeast]

That sounds like a great idea. Now if can only convince the wife to let me cook my oil pump on one of her pans in the oven

[wheneaglesfly]

Your getting into a Full Engine Rebuild.

Since your engine has the Cast Arma steel rods the Piston pins are most likely pressed in.
When the piston pins are pressed out the Piston pin bores often get distorted.
Then the piston is Junk.
The piston pin bores can be honed out on a Sunnen Hone All machine.
But the hone pattern shows High & low spots where Pin bore distortion is.
Can hone out till a clean pattern results.
Likely too much Pin to bore clearance then.
Will make for a Double engine knock when running .

[wheneaglesfly]

You said Money is tight.
You should rethink your goals.

Cast Aram Steel rods are adequate on the street.
HO Racing says they are good safe to 5700 RPM With a 2:1 Safety Ratio..

Connecting Rods experience most stress on Compression , Power, & Exhaust stroke.

An Engineers report & Computer Analysis I read on my other forum I read through .

[wheneaglesfly]

The Best rods should Require No Jacking around.
Guaranteed to 2,000-4,000 Hp.

[pontibeast]

As far as the cast rods goes I have heard it both ways. Some say they are junk and should not be used on any type of mild performance engine and others say they have sprayed the heck out of them and they last a long time. i don't really want to spend the cash but I don't want to grenade the motor either. I will need to do some thinking about it before I decide either way, I just figures since it will be at the machine shop getting checked it may be cheaper to do now.