Pontiac - Street No question too basic here!

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2016, 11:59 PM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default 510 CID all aluminum street engine build.

I am starting the assembly of an all aluminum 510" street engine that might be of interest to some. It is going in a 69 Firebird. It came in about a year ago. Here is a link to the original thread started by the guy working on the car.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=766773

This engine had many issues, from stripped out main cap side bolts because the heli-coils were in crooked, to cracks in the main web, to main caps that were serrated on the sides so they would dig into the register of the block, to cylinder sleeves that were bored .040" off center. Then there was the crooked heli-coil in the deck for one of the head bolts, and the deck that was .060" short! Oh, and don't let me forget about the cement type substance they filled one side of the block with, and the epoxy crud they filled the other side with. The pin bushings had very little clearance, and the rod big end was small, and out of round. Many months later, and lots of work, it's finally ready to build. This engine will be dynoed in the next couple weeks.

Here is a shot of the crud in the rear oil gallery. Remember, this engine was sold as a ready to run short block.



A close up of it.



Here you can see the offset in the boring of these sleeves.



Here are the sleeves after pulling them out.



And the block without them.


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #2  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:06 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Here we welded up the two stripped out bolt holes to make them solid again.



Ground out, and welded up the crack in the number 2 main web. It was very small.



Getting the block squared up in the mill, getting ready to cut the registers, and oil pan rail. I had to lightly cut the top side of the block[in the four corners] square to the oil pan rail, so we could have the block sit square on the mill table in this position.



Using a dial indicator on the straight bar, to square it up.




__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #3  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:15 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Next, we used an edge finder to find the edge of the main saddle so we could move an exact amount out to cut the registers a little wider to get rid of the serrations left by the main caps. This also gave us the dimension we needed to cut the width of the main caps after we welded up the sides.



New threaded holes, and re-cut registers.



The area that the main cap seats against had to be re-cut also since they were beat up and dented pretty bad. We cut .005" off.





Here is the welded up crack repair after I align honed it and it was cut back flush in the mill.



Number 4 main saddle after welding up a hole someone drilled to oil the thrust, then screwed a wood screw into it to plug the hole, then ground it flush. We pulled the screw out, and welded it up, then re-shaped it.


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #4  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:21 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Here are the main caps after we tig welded up the sides, then cut them to an exact dimension.







Here the block is all studded up and align honed.


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #5  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:25 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Got the new sleeves installed. We downsized the bore from 4.360" as it was when it came in, to 4.250". With a 4.500" stroke, this makes 510.7 cubic inches.





Kind of out of order, but here is the block being align honed.


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #6  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:29 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Next, we bored the lifter bores for bushings. Here is the block getting the fixturing setup on it.







Up in the mill getting bored!








__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #7  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:33 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Next I drove in the bushings. We cut an elongated oil hole in them so they would always have oil pressure to the lifters oil band.



You can see the line I scribed on the bushings to indicate where to install them too. You can see it in the blue band. If they go too far, the cam will hit them.












__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #8  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:35 AM
wheneaglesfly wheneaglesfly is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 644
Default

Very Impressive Machime Work Repairs by You.

It was Total Junk before .
Dead.

Great Job By You !

  #9  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:36 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Then I decked it to 10.175" for a zero deck height.





Here I am reaming the bushings to get them within .0015" of final size, which I will hone into them.





Honing them to .0018" clearance.







The one on the right has been honed, the one on the left has not.


__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #10  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:51 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheneaglesfly View Post
Very Impressive Machime Work Repairs by You.

It was Total Junk before .
Dead.

Great Job By You !
Thanks! It's a lot of work but will be worth it in the end. We're thinking 650-700 HP, on pump gas, with a streetable solid roller cam.

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #11  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:52 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Here are some shots of the crooked head stud hole.







So we squared it up in the mill, and bored the hole with an endmill that was smaller than the size we wanted to drill for the thread insert. We did this with an endmill because a drill bit is more likely to follow the crooked hole. The endmill bores the hole straight so we can drill the correct size hole straight. We used a Lock-N-Stitch 1/2"x13 thread insert. These insert are unique in the fact that the threads are curved upwards, so when you tighten them, They pull the parent metal in towards the center, rather than spreading apart, like a conventional thread. They make crack repair pins the same way.



Then we tapped the hole, and installed the insert.





Now the suds are straight.




__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles

Last edited by gtofreek; 02-28-2016 at 01:02 AM.
  #12  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:54 AM
GOAT WHORE's Avatar
GOAT WHORE GOAT WHORE is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,694
Default

Excellent job Paul, you never cease to amaze me!

__________________
1969 GTO 4spd. Antique Gold/black, gold int.
1969 GTO RAIII 4spd. Verdoro Green/black, black int.
1969 GTO 4spd. Crystal Turquoise, black int.
1970 GTO 4spd VOE Pepper Green, green int.
1967 LeMans 428 Auto. Blue, black int.
  #13  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:04 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default






__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #14  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:05 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE View Post
Excellent job Paul, you never cease to amaze me!
Thanks Greg! BTW, your car is coming along beautifully!

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #15  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:09 AM
wheneaglesfly wheneaglesfly is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtofreek View Post
Thanks! It's a lot of work but will be worth it in the end. We're thinking 650-700 HP, on pump gas, with a streetable solid roller cam.
Where are You located at ?
In The Midwest ?
I am not too far from Chicago . Downstate.
Most Chevy only shops would not have touched that 510 Aluminium Pontiac Block with a 20-foot pole.
I have a favorite machinist and he is a long time old friend.
Runs a Small Gas & Engine Diesel Machine shop.
I have several Factory Pontiac 455's.
Getting ready to build one for 2016.

  #16  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:14 AM
wheneaglesfly wheneaglesfly is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 644
Default

I have heard that IA 1 Blocks had quality control issues.
IA2 much better but still must check carefully .

I don't need IA2 right now.
Be nice someday.
I like Cast Iron.
Aluminium just too Exotic and expensive for me.

  #17  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:18 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Honed the block with a torque plate. Sorry the photo is blurry. The hone was running when I took this, so I guess the camera couldn't decide what to focus on.





The cylinder on the right has been plateau honed, the cylinder on the right has not been yet.



The front of this block looked really crappy. I could not stand it, so I took a Scotchbrite pad on a flat steel block, and scrabbed it clean, and gave it a nice swirl finish. Looks much better now. Guess I should have got a pic of it before, but I didn't think about it.



Done and awaiting cam bearings, and to go on the engine stand.





On the stand and ready to be built.






__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #18  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:20 AM
gtofreek's Avatar
gtofreek gtofreek is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 7,494
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheneaglesfly View Post
Where are You located at ?
In The Midwest ?
I am not too far from Chicago . Downstate.
Most Chevy only shops would not have touched that 510 Aluminium Pontiac Block with a 20-foot pole.
I have a favorite machinist and he is a long time old friend.
Runs a Small Gas & Engine Diesel Machine shop.
I have several Factory Pontiac 455's.
Getting ready to build one for 2016.
I am in the mountain country, Tucson, Arizona. A little ways from the corn belt.

Except for the weight, cast iron is much better for an engine block than aluminum.

__________________
Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236
Koerner Racing Engines
You killed it, We build it!
520-294-5758

64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction.
87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles
99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles
86 Bronco, 218,000 miles
  #19  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:25 AM
wheneaglesfly wheneaglesfly is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 644
Default

That Pontiac Guy will be very Happy with his 510 ci Poncho.

Your in Arizona.
To Far for me to drive to on a Saturday .
Crap.
Tuscon. The Inlaws are there too.

  #20  
Old 02-28-2016, 01:30 AM
wheneaglesfly wheneaglesfly is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtofreek View Post
I am in the mountain country, Tucson, Arizona. A little ways from the corn belt.

Except for the weight, cast iron is much better for an engine block than aluminum.
There is alot of Dirt Track Racing local here.
I was involved heavily till 2011-2012.
$ 20,000 -100,000 K engines on 1/4 mile high banked Oval Clay dirt track.
Chicago dirt track guys run here too.
Big payouts & $10-20K Races paydays.

Aluminium engines SBC commen place.

Once in a while Pontiac V8 on Dirt yet.

Byron.
Joliet Route 66.
Cordova Il. 1/4 Mile all 1 hour away each.

Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:17 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017