[67Twistytee]

I just completed a carb rebuild after having an issue with the float and needle & seat which caused the motor to stall out. After getting it running again, I changed the oil in case I got fuel into the crankcase. When I was emptying the drain pan, I noticed gold flake in the bottom (see attached photos). I've read through similar posts indicating this could be cam bearings or the thrust bearing. The flakes are non-magnetic and I don't see any babbit material or other debris (the few larger white pieces in the photo are paint chips from me dropping the filter into the drain pan). The engine is original, 86K with about 7,000 miles on it since a light rebuild in 2001. It's still standard bore with the original heads. Cam was changed to an 068 but that's it. TH400 tranny that's original too. Good oil pressure - 60 psi at cruise, 30 psi idle, 70 psi cold cruise. No knock or unusual noises except for an exhaust rattle at idle.

It was pinging during the summer heat and I have plans to do a rebuild to lower compression, but this looks like a lot of flake if it's a detonation issue. I cut the oil filter open and examined the pleats. No flakes inside and the filter looks normal. I ran solvent through a section and noticed a very small amount of iron dust (see pic of magnetic screw driver tip) but this too seems normal. There doesn't seem to be any play in the crank shaft (tried a pry bar) although I didn't try to measure it. I doubt it's a ballooning torque converter. Any ideas? Ok to drive it for awhile and recheck?

[fatguyterry]

what kind of dizzy gear - brass or steel?

[67Twistytee]

I haven't had it out but I assume it's a cast iron gear since its a flat tappet cam. It's the original distributor.

[1969GTO]

Looks like a pan those guys on GOLD RUSH would love to see [gold]

[steve25]

That pinging more than likely pounded out the Rod bearings ( how many, who knows!) and now they are into the copper !
I would not drive the motor at all, as once things start to go bad enought the stock rods give up in no time!
Many many years ago I had and 455 and in the time span of 4 minutes a light Rod knock ( tic) started and then went to a Jack hammer pounding, and this was at less than 3000 rpm, had I been up over 4500 or not been able to shut it down fast I would have lost the whole motor!

[JSPONT]

Does it have a windage tray? Those break too. Either way it needs to be pulled and checked. I would not run it anymore.

[67Twistytee]

If it was coming from the rod bearings, wouldn't I see material in the filter? It seems very clean considering what I'm seeing in the drain pan.

[pugslyx234]

Considering all that gold wouldnt it be best to pull the pan before a catastrophic engine failure happens?

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by 67Twistytee

If it was coming from the rod bearings, wouldn't I see material in the filter? It seems very clean considering what I'm seeing in the drain pan.

My thoughts too. Hard to see how wear particles could be in the pan and not the filter. The drain pan was clean when you started?
I changed my oil once and left the drain plug in the drained oil over night. Small flakes of paint from drain plug were in the drain pan when I poured it out. Even though they were Pontiac metallic blue they looked gold laying in the residual oil in the drain pan.

[67Twistytee]

The drain pan was clean. I had just used it to change oil on my DD and wiped it out well. I did scrape up the paint on the filter removing it which caused the white chips to fall into the drain pan, but the gold/copper flake came from the bottom of the GTO pan. I didn't notice any light colored swirling in the oil from babbit wear, just the flakes. I do plan to speed up my plans to rework the motor to lower compression, but this is a bit of a mystery to me considering the lack of other signs (oil pressure, knock, crank movement, etc).

[gtofreek]

It sounds like the thrust bearing is starting to go. That is about the only place[without a brass distributor gear] you're going to get brass looking flakes. Rod and main bearing wear usually will show up as metallic looking oil, along with knocking noise, and oil pressure loss with flakes like that. Bad thrust bearing won't make noise until it gets really bad.

[gtofreek]

Keep in mind that I have seen really bad thrust bearings that still only had .015" thrust play, but it seemed like a ton. So if yours is starting to go bad, there may not be a lot of thrust play yet.

[67Twistytee]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

It sounds like the thrust bearing is starting to go.

This is what I suspect too, especially considering your comment about crank movement not being noticeable until late stage failure. Anyone know a good Pontiac engine guy in the Carolinas? I'd like to put in dished Pistons and change the cam if the other work needs done too. I know you can ship the block but would prefer to deal locally if possible.

[gtofreek]

How far are you from Burkeville, Virginia? CVMS is located there. Doesn't look very far from Greensboro or Raleigh.

[Formulajones]

Nascar car country, I would think there would be alot of top notch engine builders around.

[67Twistytee]

I'm about a 5 hour drive to their shop. I live south of Charlotte near the SC line. It is NASCAR country but I'm not sure how many of those builders work on old pontiacs.

[68WarDog]

Dale Nichols Engineering in Gastonia have built me some very strong engines, Larry Snyder in Clover SC would be my recommendation. Nothing enters their shops unless the owner is committed to using quality parts

[67Twistytee]

Thanks for the leads. I'll give them a call and check them out. Have you used Larry before too? Looks like he has his own shop.

[68WarDog]

Larry has built engines for close friends. Also assistant in Dale shop once worked for Larry. I use Dale because I've known him longer and he is closer. Wouldn't hesitate at all going to Larry's. Give either one a call, you can't go wrong with either.

[DOC]

Just a random thought... Do you have gold aluminum rockers that may be coming apart?