[sjdiesel]

Ok guys I need some help. I am trying to figure out which engine to build.

Option one: stroke my 40 over 400. I figure the forged rotating assembly will run about $2k plus main studs and align hone

Option 2: buy a virgin 455, bore it, turn the crank, buy some good I beam rods, and forged pistons and be done.

I feel like I would be money ahead buy starting off with a 455 vs stroking my 400. I know that the 400 will have a stronger bottom end with the forged crank and studs and all but I figure if I am going the stroke the block I migh as well spend the extra 350 for the forged crank. Also the 400 needs to be align honed anyways because of some odd caps from previous build.

Keep in this is a street sleeper build. Car will be see mostly street and maybe some strip time. I am planning on SD ported 670's, roller, and RA exhaust manifolds.

Thanks guys

[1969GTO]

my engine is a 400/462.........040 400 block.
I do street strip [69 GTO] and as per Pontiac engine builders [Butler and Spotts Performance] I did not and do not need the forged crank.
I am running the Butler stroker kit and main studs and proper machine work.
I am running a Monsters Transmission t-400, RAM AIR cast mainifolds with an X PYPE ,cast intake cut as per Ruggles at SD, a Cliff Q-Jet, Continental 10" convertor, 3.55 gears[3.90] didn't change much and a Stump Puller cam, #16 heads with a street performance port work by Butler.
Last time I hit the track 1/4 was 12.4@107. [gotta run slicks].
The car is stock looking and fools them all the time.

[sjdiesel]

Whose crank, rods, pistons are you running?

[paul s.]

If you want to build a sleeper and you may pay for a forged crank anyway, why not go REAL BIG? Like a 488. With dished pistons you can still use the 670's like I did for Craig. Talk about looking old school, this used a ported Holley Strip Dominator to go along with the ported 670's and a Quadzilla 900+ cfm Q-jet from Sean Murphy Induction in California. THIS engine used a decent sized solid roller but you could definitely put a dual plane on it for EVEN MORE low end torque! Oversize Ram Air manifolds from RARE WILL support good power.

Here is a video of the 488 with open headers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pct1oerAW9o .

Good luck with your project!

[1969GTO]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

Whose crank, rods, pistons are you running?

I bought my kit from Butler,check there site for combiations and parts used.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

...Option 2: buy a virgin 455, bore it, turn the crank, buy some good I beam rods, and forged pistons and be done...

Usually Murphy will step in and insure nothing is simple. You will be putting money out to mag the 455 block, and nothing says that the line bore in that block will be straight enough to run as-is. The 455 crank might not check out good, and you could end up buying as many parts as with the 400 stroker kit.

[1969GTO]

I like telling those that I don't want to know what size engine I have,ya it's a 400 block

[sjdiesel]

You guys are right. Plus the guy with the 455 thinks it's worth gold so I would be better off building the 400 stroker.

As far as rotating kits go I am torn between the butler kit with 4.210 crank, I beam rods and KB icon pistons for about $1500 or the tin Indian kit with eagle 4.25 crank, Ross pistons and eagle 6.8 H beams for $1600??? Any recommendations??


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[1969GTO]

Mine is the Butler [6-7 years ago kit] 4.25 stroke, Ross dished pistons,"H" Beam rods.
The Tin Indian kit sounds like the Butler kit I bought Years ago.
Great kit all the parts were and still are perfect.
I would call both if possible, Butler likes to talk and give great help almost any time, I have no experience with Tin Indian and Paul Spotts of Spotts Performance had the block machine work and assembly done for me.

[old66tiger]

If interested, I am selling my stroker whole or in pieces. I sent you a PM. when figuring a build, its all the little things that add up. Make sure you include studs, align hone, boring, honing, magging, zero decking, cam lifters, etc. The list goes on and on. These all add up. You can not build a stroker for what i am selling mine for.

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[Vengeance Race Engines]

Originally Posted by sjdiesel

Ok guys I need some help. I am trying to figure out which engine to build.

Option one: stroke my 40 over 400. I figure the forged rotating assembly will run about $2k plus main studs and align hone

Option 2: buy a virgin 455, bore it, turn the crank, buy some good I beam rods, and forged pistons and be done.

I feel like I would be money ahead buy starting off with a 455 vs stroking my 400. I know that the 400 will have a stronger bottom end with the forged crank and studs and all but I figure if I am going the stroke the block I migh as well spend the extra 350 for the forged crank. Also the 400 needs to be align honed anyways because of some odd caps from previous build.

Keep in this is a street sleeper build. Car will be see mostly street and maybe some strip time. I am planning on SD ported 670's, roller, and RA exhaust manifolds.

Thanks guys

I would keep the 400 block since you already have it. Like Lust4speed said, you can sink the same if not more into someone else's set up..that and the fact you can just say it's a "400" 'cus the block says it is . Align honing isn't a ton of money and definitely go with studs since you have to hone it. I also agree, you DON'T need the 4340 Forged stuff for what you are doing, BUT, sometimes if the price isn't dramatically different, it may be worth it for future use/upgrades, just think about what you will want 3 years from now...may be wise to spend the money once. I know Butler sells the kits in 4.250"/6.800" H-beams with Mahle Reverse dome pistons which would be a nice set up if your budget allows for it but absolutely nothing wrong with the Cast crank/I-beam rod with KB Icon's..I have used them, they are a nice off the shelf slug. I also agree with going with as many inches as you can afford to go with when keepin' it sneaky

[jonmachota78]

good thread. early on I was thinking the question was, 4.25 cast eagles stroker crank vs stock cast 455 crank. it doesn't sound like the build prices differ much.

[sjdiesel]

Originally Posted by Vengeance Race Engines

I also agree, you DON'T need the 4340 Forged stuff for what you are doing, BUT, sometimes if the price isn't dramatically different, it may be worth it for future use/upgrades, just think about what you will want 3 years from now...may be wise to spend the money once.

I wake up in the middle of the night asking myself this exact question but seriously it looks like upgrading to a forged crank is about $350 extra. It seems like a lot now but may be worth it if I ever decide to upgrade some parts later for more power. It's just tough when I feel like I am hemorrhaging hundred dollar bills to restore my car

I guess the real question is what HP is a cast crank rated for vs forged crank???

[b-man]

If your 400 block is a later thin main web 557 casting then either find a 1974 or earlier 400 block or go with a 455.

Starting with a good 455 block and crank is not a bad route to take, especially if you're not keen on spending the dough for a forged crank. I would use a cast factory crank before I'd use a cast aftermarket stroker crank, if building off of a 400 block I'd consider a forged crank to be mandatory.

If you can secure a good 455 block and crank you'll be money ahead, a set of stock replacement forged rods (stock 6.625" length/stock 2.25" big end) and forged pistons of your choice would be a plenty stout and economical way to build up a big-cube Pontiac for mainly street and some occasional strip use.

The price of 455 blocks and cranks has come down in recent years due to the availability of the 400 stroker kits, if you're a careful shopper you can take advantage of this. Now that building a big-cube engine doesn't necessarily require starting with a 455 they're not the only game in town, use this as a bargaining chip with the fellow who thinks his is made of gold.