[Pecosbill]

It's been nearly seven years now for this project and it's almost time to fire the engine up. For years all I ever used in the crankcase was Quaker State 10W30, but I understand there have been some pretty dramatic improvements in oils over the past decade.

I'd like some opinions on which oil you 64 guys prefer. How about synthetics?

We should be close to turning it over weekend after next. Just lacking installing the gas tank and filling the fluids. I put a battery in her today and energized the electronics. Most seem to be working with the exception of what appears to be a ground issue on one side of the headlights.

[rexs73gto]

If this is the first fire up make sure you use a non-det. oil 30W with some of the ZZDP additive in it to break it in , then drain it out & run any good oil that has the ZZDP additive in it or you will wipe out your cam ..... If your using a flat tappet cam. Do not use any syn. oil until you have at least 10K on your engine or you'll end up having oil burning problems. Always use the ZZDP additive with each oil change as the new oil is junk & it's not in the new oils & will cause you to wipe out a flat tappet cam in a big hurry.

[ANDYA]

For break-in I would go with Brad Penn 30wt break-in oil and a bottle of GM Eos. After that I would use Brad Penn 20w-50 or any other oil designed for our older engines with lots of ZDDP in it.

[propuckstopper]

I have spent quite a bit of time at www.bobistheoilguy.com. I certainly do not consider myself an expert on engine oil, but I can say that I have certainly learned a great deal on the subject over the past three years.

The biggest lessons I have learned there? Follow the manufacturer's suggested viscosity ratings, and don't play "chemist" with oil additives. The best quote I ever heard on that site was "what the heck in a modern, properly formulated motor oil needs to be stabilized?" This quote, of course, refers to Lucas Oil Stabilizer, but applies to most if not all additives out there.

Having said this, however, there is certainly a need for a specialty oil in our older engines due to the semi-recent reduction in ZDDP levels in modern oils. These low ZDDP oils can be commonly found at auto parts stores and places like Wal-Mart. I refer to these products as "off the shelf" oils. I run these oils in my newer, daily drivers without issue.

Fortunately for us, several "boutique" oil manufacturers (more accurately, "blenders") offer high-quality modern formulations of high ZDDP lubricants. I use Amsoil Z-Rod 10W-30 in both my freshly rebuilt engines ('65 Tri-power and a '68 400 H.O.) The factory originally called for a 10W-30, and with both these engines being freshly rebuilt I go no heavier than the 10W-30 variety. I have heard that Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs have some great offerings as well, but I have never tried them. I wouldn't hesitate; I just have a fairly large stock of Amsoil right now.

All of the companies I mention here also offer a quality 30W break in oil, which I would strongly suggest for your purpose. No need to add a thing. With my engines, I simply followed the break-in oil directions to the letter and went to synthetic oil afterwards. Don't believe the "you shouldn't run synthetic oil until XXXX miles". Neither of my engines burn a drop. Compression pressure and engine power are perfect in both. However, on the other hand, don't think that you must run a synthetic oil. Dino juice is perfectly fine in most applications.

Whatever oil company you choose, I firmly believe that you will be assured of long engine life without the need for playing "chemist".

Hope this helps!

[Pecosbill]

Thanks, guys. Glad I asked, as things have definitely changed. I never even heard of ZDDP until now, nor any of the boutique oils you all mentioned. I'll see what I can come up with from the ones you all mentioned.

[geeteeohguy]

propuckstopper is 100% on the money. For older cars (pre 1990), oils have NOT made 'dramatic improvements' over the past decade---they've degraded into something that we can no longer use due to government mandate. Add the ZDDP and you're good to go. And stick with the factory spec'd viscosity: 10/30.

[60sstuff]

Has EVERYTHING in it you need for an old muscle car engine including ZDDP.

[propuckstopper]

Originally Posted by 60sstuff

Has EVERYTHING in it you need for an old muscle car engine including ZDDP.

I certainly do not disagree with the choice of Valvoline Racing Oil. It is very popular with the circle track guys around here and I know Valvoline is a top-notch blender.

I have not looked into this particular formula, but there are at least two things that should be analyzed before committing to a "racing" oil for your street car.

As a rule, racing oils are changed quite often and the engines are subject to frequent teardown and inspection. As a result, they often are blended with a lower TBN (Total Base Number) which reduces the amount of acid-neutralizing ingredients in the oil. This only really becomes important during extended drain intervals, but it is still something to be considered.

The second thing I would look at, is the amount of anti-corrosion additives in a racing oil. I'm not sure about your cars, but my GTOs sit more than they get driven. Anti-corrosion additives are effective at protecting your engine during extended storage periods. Again, I'm not sure about the levels of anti-corrosion additives in a racing oil, but my guess is that they would be somewhat unneccessary due to the frequent tear-down schedules.

Just some things to think about and research...

[Kenth]

From page 34 in the 1965 Tempest owners manual:

"Note: A can of Engine Oil Supplement (E.O.S.) must be added at each oil change."

Engine oils weren´t that much better in the 60´s, than today.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by propuckstopper

As a rule, racing oils are changed quite often and the engines are subject to frequent teardown and inspection. As a result, they often are blended with a lower TBN (Total Base Number) which reduces the amount of acid-neutralizing ingredients in the oil. This only really becomes important during extended drain intervals, but it is still something to be considered.

I agree with this. I wouldn't run any oil designated as a racing oil more than 500 miles.

I'm currently running Brad Penn 10W40 in my fresh (last winter build) 462. I was thinking about running Mobil 1 15W50 (this is the Mobile 1 with the highest ZDDP content), but decided against it because I was a little nervous running oil that heavy in my northern climate. I do occassionally run the car in temperatures below 32 degrees.

[Dick Boneske]

As said earlier, the Valvoline VR1 oil has all you need for the Pontiac V8 with flat or roller tappets. It has sufficient zinc and is FAR SUPERIOR to the oils we used in the '60's when these cars were new.

You need to pay attention to the FACT that today's engines routinely go for 200,000 miles plus without teardown. The superior oils we have today is a large factor of longer engine life. Zinc was removed only because of the anti-smog devices on modern engines. Zinc fouls the catalytic converter.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by Pecosbill

I'd like some opinions on which oil you 64 guys prefer. How about synthetics?

Bill, I don't think this is issue is limited to '64 guys, LOL!

Please consider this oil: http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/

I don't blindly endorse products but I have spent time grilling the point of contact about this and have come to the conclusion that this is a reliable, proper alternative product given the absence of high-zinc oils from the big refiners.

[RamAirIV28]

Some engine oils have the ability to corrode brass or bronze parts inside and engine. if you have bronze valve guids or a distributor gear be warned.

Take a good look at what is used and reccommended for aircooled engines like old BMW motorcycles.

[elefantrider]

I use Quaker State Defy in the heaviest weight available, I think it is 10w-40 or 15w-40. It has a lot of zinc and is available at Walmart for cheap.

[Koppster]

Valvoline VR1...outstanding oil & easily found

[elefantrider]

I have a friend that runs nothing but VR1 20w50. Daily driver 400HP SBF, hasn't been rebuilt in 10+ years.

[geeteeohguy]

Racing oils are not formulated to hold up in day to day driving, as propuckstopper stated. They are meant to offer max protection during competition, and are expected to be changed after a short interval. Not at 4000 to 8000 miles. Not for multiple cold starts and traffic jams. I haven't run racing oil in my GTO's in over 30 years because of this. I learned better. I also believe the use of 20/50 oil in an engine that is built to factory specifications is a big mistake, and does more harm than good. No reason to add a thick, slow flowing oil to an engine in good condition. In a tired old engine that has worn clearances, or a very loose race engine, yes.

[GT182]

I've been running Valvoline VR1 20W-50 for the last 5 years in my 66. No problems and no sludge build up. I only change the oil twice a year, but then again I only drive it less than 1000 miles a year

After seeing an engine back in the 80s with over 120,000 miles on it and no sludge in it at all, I won't use anything but Valvoline in any of my vehicles. And it was an original never rebuilt engine. I've always been told that the worse thing you can do is jump from brand to brand. Run one mfg's oil and stick with it.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Racing oils are not formulated to hold up in day to day driving, as propuckstopper stated. They are meant to offer max protection during competition, and are expected to be changed after a short interval. Not at 4000 to 8000 miles. Not for multiple cold starts and traffic jams. I haven't run racing oil in my GTO's in over 30 years because of this. I learned better. I also believe the use of 20/50 oil in an engine that is built to factory specifications is a big mistake, and does more harm than good. No reason to add a thick, slow flowing oil to an engine in good condition. In a tired old engine that has worn clearances, or a very loose race engine, yes.

This is WELL PUT. Racing oil is for RACING engines.

Personal anecdote: My brother in law (an expert in everything) swears by 20W50 oil in his car (that he doesn't drive - another story). His reasoning: because if it holds up to the demands of a race car, then it'll be good for an occasionally-started (and even less-often driven) car that he sunk $25k into.

[geeteeohguy]

GT182, you are having no problems running racing oil because you change it every 500 miles. At that rate, you will be in good shape. I drive my Pontiacs 4,000 miles between changes, and need an oil that is formulated for the abusive situations encountered during street use: cold starts, traffic jams, etc. Racing oil, in my case, is ill-suited for this purpose.