[gavin]

A while ago we had a thread "for the stock block guys" and a very good thread it was. In it there was some intrest shown in block plates and and trans adapters for the early pontiac engines. Bruce wilkie posted a lot of good info on bellhousing pattens including info by jack gifford and taff2. Since their seemed to be a need and I had some spear time I talked a buddy of mine into doing some cad drawings. Brent knows nothing about pontiacs and I know nothing about cad drawing but between us we cooked up some drawings. What we have is a adapter plate and a engine plate with both early and late pontiac bell pattens. It also has the chev patten for those that would run p/g trans. The bolt holes are cut at 6mm so you can drill and tap for studs if wanted while the dowel holes are cut to stock dia. Brent has put this info into pdf form that can be read by most lazer cutters the other files you can open your self. I just got the adapter plate cut for a test and it cost $27 and would be a simpler price in the states. If some one wants to use these pdf drawings to make saleble parts you are welcome. If you use these pdfs please post info on how they were used. Now the pain the arse part I have just tried to load the pdfs and the site cant handle them .If any one knows a way of loading them on the site please let me know. In the mean time if you want the drawings I can e-mail them to you just contact me and you can have them.

[johnta1]

PM sent

[johnta1]

Here is a link to download the files that Gavin made:

Adapter Plate Rectangle pdf

Adapter Plate pdf

Adapter Plate dwg

Adapter Plate Rectangle dwg

Right click on them and save them to your computer.

Thanks Gavin.

[rontiac]

FYI....page cannot be found on all of them....

[Half-Inch Stud]

I bought the Chevy plate for BOP engines from JEGS for ~$55 to adapt the 4L80E to the 455.

Did some cut-off work to math the Block pattern. Bodes well to laser/water jet thes plates for best Block perimeter match. The 2 Dowel registers are the precise items. HIS

[Tom Vaught]

Links do not work John, Please test them out and make the corrections.

Tom Vaught

PM to Gavin

[johnta1]

Try this again:

Here is a link to download the files that Gavin made:

Adapter Plate Rectangle pdf

Adapter Plate pdf

Adapter Plate dwg

Adapter Plate Rectangle dwg

Right click on them and save them to your computer.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

I bought the Chevy plate for BOP engines from JEGS for ~$55 to adapt the 4L80E to the 455.

Did some cut-off work to math the Block pattern. Bodes well to laser/water jet thes plates for best Block perimeter match. The 2 Dowel registers are the precise items. HIS

These are for 55-60 block to modern bell pattern... can also be used to mount a starter to a 61-63 block and modern bell housing(T400/T350 etc.) using a 61-63 offset pattern bell mount Delco starter. IMI offers a mini and RobbMC's "Nailhead" mini is offset pattern and same pilot size same pinion size. The 55-60 "straight across" pattern can be made to work but on car starter changes would be tedious.

[BruceWilkie]

BTW While revising my 1st plate to 61-64 big car offset pattern vs straight across 55-60starter, I decided to figure out where the pinion center of a modern Pontiac/Delco starter is relative to pan rail and crank center.

I've come up with 2.333" below pan rail intersecting a 7.351" radius from crank center. I measured 3 original 65 up Delco/Pontiac starters with the 2.333" dimension being the average. The 7.351" radius dimension has a .025" pinion to ring gear clearance factored in off that average. Correct pinion to ring gear clearance(lash) is .020"-.030". Also based on "modern" Pontiac 13.98" diameter ring gear(not the earlier larger diameter)

It is best to weld the starter pilot plate to the adapter AFTER you mock starter in place.(You might want a head and header bolted up before you weld. See my ending comments) This allows you to bolt the starter up set/check pinion clearance then fully tighten bolts recheck clearance THEN tack weld the starter pilot plate. (crank and main bearings in block with engine block on its nose on two large wood blocks and block adapter bolted/doweled on.) Also suggest you check that the pilot piece is thick enough to allow the disengaged pinion to clear the back of the ring gear by at least 1/8". Too thick and you will have insufficient engagement depth. Too thin(less than 1/8" clearance) will bottom bendix into ring gear. 61-up blocks have a different bell face depth than 55-60(but modern pattern). The 55-60 bell face is @ 1/4" "deeper" relative to the flywheel than 61-up. This changes pilot thickness from the Wilhite t400 61-63 block t400 adapter drawing. His drawing also locates the starter for the earlier larger ring gear.

Fwiw... I'm building a 2nd plate as first one was made with some very pock marked steel. Functional but not pretty! Came across a nice piece of 4130 for free so this will be known steel type and prettier.
Also first plate I had mounted the starter a tid closer to pan rail than where a modern Pontiac/delco sits which put solenoid right on a header tube... after grindin my welds off to reposition the starter I decided to find the "proper" pinion center to pan rail dimension. Figured I'd be best off using the "modern" Pontiac starter position. Fortunately my scribed radius marks and vertical crank centerline marks were still somewhat usable. Had to fill bolt holes in block plate, open starter hole in block plate some, and make a template to line up to radius marks and relocate the bolt holes. This time I made sure I had a head and header bolted on when I mocked the starter in place and tacked the pilot plate. If I had to hurry and had no intention of passing info along, I could have taken the easy path and just bent the header tube.

[BruceWilkie]

Update... it was mentioned somewhere about using a Chev straight 6 starter (solenoid down) ... I found a starter nose for one and test fit it.
Two issues for me... the pilot is smaller OD which can be resolved when you make the pilot spacer. Solenoid wont clear my pan kick-out... but would if using a straight sided oil pan(driver side). 3rd possible issue is solenoid may interfere with existing headers or other exhaust system parts.
The plus... the chev 6 starter nose does bolt up in place of a v8 nose if you already have a HD delco starter. Bolt pattern is favorable as well.

[Merrik66]

It's been a while since I've dropped in. Busy with other things. In any case, back at it with the plan to start into the turbo build in a 63 cat. I was trying to check out the adapter plate drawings which Gavin had set up. It said URL not available or something like that and wouldn't let me through to check out the drawings. Any ideas? Also, just a refresher..the project has two possible directions for a motor. First is 59' 389 based build for which i have a good block to start with but nothing else for that approach. Second is 455 based build. For the 455 option I already have the .030 speed pros like I mentioned a few months ago. I settled on a set of #66 with around 114cc chambers with tapped and threaded arp rocker studs. No other work done to them at this point. H beam rods, 3/4 race bearings, moly rings, melling pump, 068 grind, factory logs which I'll open up a touch if need be, 4k# 63 cat, built t 400, rebuilt stock converter, 3:08. my plan is to pick up a s 475 in the next couple months. And a carb after that. Still haven't narrowed plan on inter cooler or water/meth. Pros, cons of the two ? Goal is 700hp. Bruce, did you ever find out if your brother could supply the bw unit? If not, do you have a good lead? I'm not opposed to used if not too used. I'll be looking for an appropriate carb as well. Is there anything in what you see here which may be a potential problem? Also arp main stud kit 2 bolt in place.

[johnta1]

I was trying to check out the adapter plate drawings which Gavin had set up. It said URL not available or something like that

Try it now.
(the second set of links I posted in Post #7)

[Merrik66]

Hey John, thanks for refreshing the link however you were able to do that! Heres what happened..I was able to view all four files..2 PDF, 2 dwg. Then I copied the first two PDF files. I tried to copy the 2 dwg files and and at that point I couldn't view them again. Are the the PDFs and the dwg's just duplicates in a little different format? I guess maybe it doesn't matter because the second of the PDF shows 3 drawings of what looks to be exactly what I need in finished form. Is one of those 3 more important than the other 2 as I could be using a 59' block for the build. If I use the 455/400 then I guess I don't need em at all. But I do want the appropriate plate in my possession at some point just in case I do go the 59' 389 route. Thanks again.

[johnta1]

I believe the dwg's are for using with a cad program, basically?

[Tom Vaught]

Why can't I copy the PDF file from your site (linked) to an Excel File, John?

You have it protected? View only?

Tom Vaught

[johnta1]

Not from me.

I got those files from gavin, the original poster of this thread.
(he couldn't get them to load on PY)

I just provide a place to download them from.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Merrik66

It's been a while since I've dropped in. Busy with other things. In any case, back at it with the plan to start into the turbo build in a 63 cat. I was trying to check out the adapter plate drawings which Gavin had set up. It said URL not available or something like that and wouldn't let me through to check out the drawings. Any ideas? Also, just a refresher..the project has two possible directions for a motor. First is 59' 389 based build for which i have a good block to start with but nothing else for that approach. Second is 455 based build. For the 455 option I already have the .030 speed pros like I mentioned a few months ago. I settled on a set of #66 with around 114cc chambers with tapped and threaded arp rocker studs. No other work done to them at this point. H beam rods, 3/4 race bearings, moly rings, melling pump, 068 grind, factory logs which I'll open up a touch if need be, 4k# 63 cat, built t 400, rebuilt stock converter, 3:08. my plan is to pick up a s 475 in the next couple months. And a carb after that. Still haven't narrowed plan on inter cooler or water/meth. Pros, cons of the two ? Goal is 700hp. Bruce, did you ever find out if your brother could supply the bw unit? If not, do you have a good lead? I'm not opposed to used if not too used. I'll be looking for an appropriate carb as well. Is there anything in what you see here which may be a potential problem? Also arp main stud kit 2 bolt in place.

My brother cant come close to price others are sellin the BorgWarners for. http://forcedinductions.com/productsborgwarner.htm has good pricing and reputation on YB seems good... fwiw

[johnta1]

Here's some more stuff from Gavin:

These make use of the chev six truck starter mounted upside down .This allows you to use a chev trans with out the trans flange hitting the starter nose as the chev starter nose is smaller than the pontiac nose . You must use a stud in the top hole .The dwr marked REC is a engine plate .For some reason I cant access the PY site at this time so could you please add this email when you post the drawings .Note: for those out side the USA a bedford truck starter should be the same as they use the chev engine . thank you for your help.Gavin.

Adapter plate chevy truck pdf - right click and use 'save as'

Adapter plate lt dwg - right click and use 'save as'

Adapter plate chevy truck dwg - right click and use 'save as'

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Here's some more stuff from Gavin:



Adapter plate chevy truck pdf - right click and use 'save as'

Adapter plate lt dwg - right click and use 'save as'

Adapter plate chevy truck dwg - right click and use 'save as'

Thanks for postin John.... Gavin nice work!

[charlie66]

has anyone make any of these adapter plates that someone could buy?

Thanks