[Tom McQueen]

I know there are some good stories on this subject. It cant possibly just be me. So Ill start it off with my most recent.

Shop came highly recommended. By multiple people I knew well using their services. Mostly a Chevy shop, but a couple Pontiac guys said they were OK. So I went there and dropped everything off for the short block.

I took them an IA-2, Scat forged 4.500" crank, Oliver 6.735" billet rods, a 50mm cam etc, etc, etc. Also wanted the lifter bores bushed. They were to order the pistons, pins, rings, bearings, etc. Whatever they needed. Took a long time. Cost to much. But hey, good things are worth the effort, right? Got it back. The pistons were +.005" out of the deck. The block had NEVER been decked. The piston to wall was .0085". Most of the mains were under .002". Rods were right at .002". Lifter clearance was .0045". The sleeves were maybe .035" thick, and some could be pushed out of the bore very easily. The cam could barely be turned by hand and Im using NEEDLE bearings! The gear drive was so tight you couldnt get the idler off without prying it.

Now Im all for on the job training. And the nite crew that sweeps and mops the floor clearly were the ones working on my stuff, hoping for a spot on the day crew. This is a big time place. It has taken over a year to recover from all this, but its finally done and the 'NEW' engine is in final assembly. I wont post the shop name, but if youre thinking about using ANY engine shop in Gilbert AZ, I highly recommend you think twice about that decision.

Post up your horror story.

[JLHarper]

Sorry to hear that Tom.

I built (funded) a aftermarket Pontiac engine/build a while back that was shipped with rings that didnt seat (washed cylinders), leaking head gasket, distributor leaking bad at block,.... few other problems. Car was finished, eng installed and came to me with fuel pump wires stuck through frame rail, gas lines through jagged holes in body and nothing in between, old tranny swapped out for my "new" one....to name a few there.

This was a $35,000+ job.

Builder had problems, and they came out a few years later.

Jeff

[PonchoV8]

No biggees to list like the OP, but I took a WS block and two sets of #12s for magging by another one of those top rated machine shops. He farmed it to some other shop and right where the block code is for the WS, they stamped some internal shop numbers and bore measurement under it. Before I knew he was farming it out I took another WS and told him not to stamp anywhere it's going to be seen because (I said yet AGAIN) these are collectible parts. So they stamped my first and last name across the face of the block which will be hidden when assembled, but still...why(?) Then he lost a set of #12s somewhere which turned up later that week.

[bryansMtngto]

knew a shop in Northern IL. did a neighbors 455, must of thought it was a Chevy after fresh rebuild, and warm up run ran it to 7500 Rpm and windowed the Block. Then tried to blame the block. They did in the end do a new engine for him.

[Blackcat]

Took several blocks to be cleaned checked and vatted. I check a week later and they all vanished? WTF? I walk back to the vatting area and they are hidden behind a bunch of Chevy stuff. Went back up to the owner and asked him to come with me to check out where my missing blocks were. They ended up firing a guy that was supposed Pontiac person that decided to steal my stuff instead of asking to buy or find his own.

Another time I took in a Buick 455 to be checked out and they went and rebuilt it without my permission. Well it sat for six months while we argued about it and cost. Finally we agreed on the price. I went to get the engine and the place had closed the doors. I lost my engine. Still pissed about that.

[JLHarper]

BLACKCATS post reminded me of a number of Pontiac people who have taken their VIN MATCHING TRANSMISSIONS in for rebuild (68 and up GTOs I know...others ?) and either didnt know or found out later the VIN is stamped on the case. They discovered they got back a rebuilt trans with someone elses trans case.

One member posted on here that he read a post re: TRANS VIN, and went and checked his stamping only to find it wasnt his matching VIN tranny, and he knew car was an original drivetrain.

FWIW: Stamped on the drivers side of most 68 and up GTOs probably others but not schooled in those.... on the little "greasy" ledge behind shift selector bar. Not on the plate on pass side though its got the trans model specific code there, and year. Upside down stamped on many I have seen....kind of hard to see.

I started marking all my parts too..... fwiw.

Jeff

TRANS PIC LOCATION (newer model right side up but location) FWIW.....

[77 TRASHCAN]

My engine building friend moved 3-4 years ago, no longer does common automotive work at his new location.

He taught his step son all the details of the trade. The step son no longer works on engine stuff either...CRAP!!! ALL the knowledge wasted!!!

I could trust them w/ anything!!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>....my point......before finding them, there was nobody I could trust to do anything correctly... ANYTHING...ANYTHING!!!

examples:
valves seized in guide, not sized correctly
standard pistons installed in a block w/ .009-.011 wall clearance
crank ruined on grinding machine (they supplied another, though)

Ever seen a block get decked that was off on both planes??? duh, all new machines, w/ no clue....

more I can't remember...

I talked to engine builder friend at NHRA divisional race this past year, he related how much more difficult it is to find a shop that does good work.....

[quick67bird]

On my first what was considered high HP build for me wanted the engine assembled by a professional. I took the engine to a shop in Selah, WA which was supposed to be experienced in race motor builds and knew Pontiacs. I bought all upper end parts and never once questioned quoted machine work and assembly prices. Labor and assembly cost me $2800.

Parts in this motor were 4 bolt billet main caps
Crower I beam steel rods
Eagle crank
Ross Pistons
Federal mogul bearings

They did all machine work and assembly of the bottom end. I installed the top end and got the motor running. I had roughly 100 street miles and 20 1/8 mile passes on the motor when it lost oil pressure. I called the machine shop and told them what happened. They asked me to pull the motor and bring it to them complete so they could tear it down and see what happened.

After 3 months and numerous calls they told me the middle main cap sat higher than the rest of the main caps, but they do not think they did anything wrong with machine work. They said they would fix it and and give me a call when they were done. I thought they were going to work with on price for the fix. A month and a half later I am called and told the motor is done. I pick it up and receive an invoice for the full amount of the build. No reduction in price at all. They even charged me to tear it apart. After that fiasco I will never have a motor put together by anyone again and will check all machine work myself.

[Bob Timmermans]

I did 40 hours of portwork on my Classic Mini Cooper 1380 head .
You think to leave the valve work by the machineshop for last so you can't accidentally damage this.

I bring in the head , tell 'm that they have to dril the holes for the exhaust valveguides bigger and 0.050 offset to place the bigger valves ....... "can I count on you to get this done right ?" ...... "Yes sir , no problem."

I go to the machineshop to pick it up.
It's laying there on the counter , i immediatly see that they screwed up because the valves couldn't even pass each other in the head .

"what were you thinking ?" the guy behind the counter says.

" I know what I'm thinking now !" I reply.

They replaced the head , but I brought it to another shop for the port & valvework , I didn't have the motivation to spend a week porting in the shed again.

If I take stuff to a machineshop nowadays I put the work in detail on paper and make them sign for it.

[uforacing]

Back in the 90's I helped a kid build his engine. He brought me the heads from the Machine shop that had the guide plates upside down and had freeze plugs in all 4 holes.

PonchoV8. At least they did not grind off the casting #'s and stamp there name in it like some place here in Colorado.

[ho428]

Took my V block to get done a few years back. They block filled it to the side plugs without asking, they also stamped their shop letter codes all over it. Still pissed about that.

Took a 350 block in to another shop, decided to let them mock it up for an .005 in the hole decking after boring rather than take it home, mock it up and take the block back. They cut way to much off. Pistons stuck out of the hole and each bank was different.

Had another shop bore and supposidly do the mock up, said it was .005 without a cut so he left it. Not sure how he checked it since he had the pistons and rods backward (chevy)
Got that fixed and when I mocked it up it they were .010-.015 down in the holes. Took it back and had an argument as to how he checked it. I put it together right in front of him and used his own bridge to show him.

Now, if I can't do the mock up myself I want deck ht numbers before ok'ing the deck cut.
No offence to the good ones, but most machinest seem to have a superiority complex.

[SRR]

Took a block in for just a mag and clean. Took them a month with me asking about it every week.
Did a rebuild on a 307 Chevy once for my DD and asked them NOT to install any block oil or coolant plugs. When I picked it up they were all installed. I asked them if the block was clean and ready for assembly since they did that and they said "Just put it together it's all set to go." Well, I lost a rod bearing in less than 1000 miles. There was a pile of grit in the front of the oil pan that looked like someone knocked over a pepper shaker. I was pissed, it ruined the crank. Word to the wise, an engine is not clean enough to put together unless you cleaned it yourself!!! This shop went out of business a couple years later.
Helped a friend redo a head on his daughters "K" car a few years back and to make a long story short we had the head off three times because it just wouldn't run good, the compression was all over the place. The last time we took it in I told them that if it not right this time, it's coming through your front window when I come back. When we picked it up it looked great and they actually "blued" the valves and our compression was 120 PSI across the board. Ran great. The shop owner told me they fired the guy who worked on the last two times as he had other complaints. This shop has also gone out of business.
Took a set a pistons in to have them swapped for new ones and specifically told them NOT to refurbish the rods and even wrote it on the box they were in, plus on the work order. Well, they did it anyway. I told the jerk I wasn't paying for it because I told him not to do it. He then argued with me that it's required. I ended up not paying for it and threw the rods away and bought new ones.
I'm currently building a 283 for a guy that's getting the royal treatment (roller cam, roller rockers,hype pistons, balanced.) at a machine shop I've never used before and they seem very eager to listen but I did get a little attitude from them when I dropped off the heads which are "camel hump" untouched originals, he needed some money down so he wouldn't be "stuck" with them. I said really? Stuck with a very rare and valuable part? They are kind of annoyed that I am assembling the engine myself. I told them to bore it .060 because that's what the owner wanted and they bored it .030 because it didn't need to go .060. They have talked to the guy who owns the 283 and told me he's "clueless" I said I don't really care, he's paying the bill so that makes him right.
When we were doing Ben's 400 the machine shop "lost" his valley pan and tried to imply we never dropped it off. He did find us another one. This shop is a dirty craphole and I can see why stuff gets lost. He also is never wrong and is the same shop that takes a really long time to do that mag and clean mentioned above.

[Mark C.]

I had a guy I worked with rebuild my 455. I picked it up and took it home. When we went to install the flywheel and torque the bolts the motor never turned. Thought WTH. Tore it apart. Found broken ring in #7 and a couple rod bearings installed 180* out. The tang was on the wrong side of the rod cap.

Luckily I didn't pay when I picked it up(can't remember why). Called him and told him what I found, said he not sure what happened. Never did pay him.

[mechanickeith]

The little shop I use here has been perfect every time. They will bore a block for me for 10 bucks a hole. Have been perfect on deck height every time. No poblems at all. Have sent many Pontiac friends to them with no issues. Small shop with only 3 people working there. They do everything from Buick 215's, corvairs, 426 hemi's, Caddy flat head V8's,,, Have seen everything in there!! The only thing this place doesnt do is crank grind & balance but the shop they contract out to has done an excellent job for me.

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by Tom McQueen

I know there are some good stories on this subject. It cant possibly just be me. So Ill start it off with my most recent.

Shop came highly recommended. By multiple people I knew well using their services. Mostly a Chevy shop, but a couple Pontiac guys said they were OK. So I went there and dropped everything off for the short block.

I took them an IA-2, Scat forged 4.500" crank, Oliver 6.735" billet rods, a 50mm cam etc, etc, etc. Also wanted the lifter bores bushed. They were to order the pistons, pins, rings, bearings, etc. Whatever they needed. Took a long time. Cost to much. But hey, good things are worth the effort, right? Got it back. The pistons were +.005" out of the deck. The block had NEVER been decked. The piston to wall was .0085". Most of the mains were under .002". Rods were right at .002". Lifter clearance was .0045". The sleeves were maybe .035" thick, and some could be pushed out of the bore very easily. The cam could barely be turned by hand and Im using NEEDLE bearings! The gear drive was so tight you couldnt get the idler off without prying it.

Now Im all for on the job training. And the nite crew that sweeps and mops the floor clearly were the ones working on my stuff, hoping for a spot on the day crew. This is a big time place. It has taken over a year to recover from all this, but its finally done and the 'NEW' engine is in final assembly. I wont post the shop name, but if youre thinking about using ANY engine shop in Gilbert AZ, I highly recommend you think twice about that decision.

Post up your horror story.

Sorry to learn of this. Have you brought it back and showed them all the issues? or are they not aware of your disatisfaction?
Is this the shop off of Guadalupe and Cooper?

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by SRR

When we were doing Ben's 400 the machine shop "lost" his valley pan and tried to imply we never dropped it off. He did find us another one. This shop is a dirty craphole and I can see why stuff gets lost. He also is never wrong and is the same shop that takes a really long time to do that mag and clean mentioned above.

Don't forget the same shop gave you attitude when you went to pick up Vincent's 400 and they didn't install the cam bearings. You asked why they didn't and they gave you all sorts of lip about customers wanting to do it themselves and why would they think to install them? Yeah, because installing cam bearings is something the average hobbyist has the tools and ability to do... I did get a really nice '72 valley pan out of that deal, which worked great on the engine.

[GRX]

As someone who worked on "the other side" of the counter for many years I am watching this thread with interest.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Don't forget the same shop gave you attitude when you went to pick up Vincent's 400 and they didn't install the cam bearings. You asked why they didn't and they gave you all sorts of lip about customers wanting to do it themselves and why would they think to install them? Yeah, because installing cam bearings is something the average hobbyist has the tools and ability to do... I did get a really nice '72 valley pan out of that deal, which worked great on the engine.

Forgot about that one! He also told me no further cleaning was needed and I just said OK and cleaned it anyway. The oil passages had tons of black junk pouring out when I did the brake clean treatment on them. My son was amazed because the block LOOKED so good on the outside.

[GT182]

Tom, sounds like they built it to Chevy specs. LOL BTW... did you make them understand it was a Pohntiac engine to be worked on. Some of those Chevy guys can't hear too well... and it sounds like this bunch was a part of that group. I'd be pissed to no end.

[poncho-mike]

I've seen most of the normal stuff, but the real kicker happened to a guy who called me looking for a SD455 engine a few years ago. He took his engine to a machine shop for rebuilding. The machine shop recommended a more expensive cleaning that what he provided in shop, so the block and heads were sent out. When they came back, a generic 455 and heads were sent in it's place.

Mike