[ramair455ca]

looking for a new system for my 72 firebird, aprox 600/600 hp/trq

I prefer the crossflow muffler for fit but unsure of how much it affects hp, not interested in anything that drones, had the flowmaster crossflow and got tired of the noise.Like the sound of the pipes system but apparently only offered in 2.5'' for the crossflow and heard alot of complaints about service and fitment issues.

any input appreciated.

[bonneville Joe]

Magnaflow.

I put a set of 3" magnaflows on my 77 a few weeks back. Sounds great, dosen't drone but you can definetly hear it. Nice tone when cruising and it screams when you give it the gas. They make an entire stainless setup in 3" with an X pipe for your car.

[bonneville Joe]

Couple to look at, 2nd system is a crossflow setup.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-15899/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-15895/

[78savette]

I'd recommend looking at the system from Ram Air Restorations, I have their 2 1/2" w/ Goerlich 18" xlerator's and an x-pipe on my 81 TA, easy install, nice sound, quality system.

[ramair455ca]

A few people have suggested the magnaflow now, I like that it comes in stainless. My ideal system would be three inch crossflow but no one seems to male that. Who makes the goerlich muffler?I have heard it's got great flow numbers.

[Ccass]

ram air, 2.5" mandrel bent is adequate for 600hp unless you are racing. Pypes crossflow flows exactly the same as a dual system. Magnaflow does not. Ram Air Resto doesn't have a crossflow. You could get Y pipes up front and run dumps when extra flow is needed. Also a 3" X into 2.5" would be an option as well. Goerlich's mufflers flow well but for your application will drone and are loud in 14" dual muffler config. They are also not stainless. Pypes crossflow isn't the easiest to install but 2000 owners have managed.

[ramair455ca]

Ccass, the car will see a mix of street and track use but will need exhaust on track as well due to db restrictions. The main reason I prefer the crossflow is for ground clearance as I use the car in autocross and solo 1 and I tend to bottom on occasion at speed. My engine builder suggested the hybrid 3" into 2.5" system as the exhaust temp should be low enough halfway down the car that the 3" is unnescessary. I'm going to see if pypes could accomadate with a 3/2.5 inch hybrid system but I'm not sure that they will.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by ramair455ca

Ccass, the car will see a mix of street and track use but will need exhaust on track as well due to db restrictions. The main reason I prefer the crossflow is for ground clearance as I use the car in autocross and solo 1 and I tend to bottom on occasion at speed. My engine builder suggested the hybrid 3" into 2.5" system as the exhaust temp should be low enough halfway down the car that the 3" is unnescessary. I'm going to see if pypes could accomadate with a 3/2.5 inch hybrid system but I'm not sure that they will.

A crossflow is perfect for your application. What you choose is up to you. If you decide on Pypes and want the hybrid kit, send me an e-mail so I can confirm it won't require mods to fit. We'd have to check on a couple measurements.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by ramair455ca

Ccass, the car will see a mix of street and track use but will need exhaust on track as well due to db restrictions. The main reason I prefer the crossflow is for ground clearance as I use the car in autocross and solo 1 and I tend to bottom on occasion at speed. My engine builder suggested the hybrid 3" into 2.5" system as the exhaust temp should be low enough halfway down the car that the 3" is unnescessary. I'm going to see if pypes could accomadate with a 3/2.5 inch hybrid system but I'm not sure that they will.

I have a PYPES three inch X pipe up front for ground clearance you should have no problem then just use a flowmaster cone reducer to the 2 1/2 inch crossflow rear setup.On my car I preferred to use under the floorpan mufflers and save the crossflow area for a fuel pump and filter.

[David Holmberg]

I ran a 3" PYPES X pipe system on my 77 TA for years. The car is LOW, I've torn off front spoilers and smashed header tubes but have never hit the exhaust on anything. I had 3" in and out normal oval shaped mufflers, again without touching them. With a Crossflow muffler it shouldn't be a worry.

I had no drone at all, and the car was very quiet until you put your foot into it.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by ramair455ca

Ccass, the car will see a mix of street and track use but will need exhaust on track as well due to db restrictions. The main reason I prefer the crossflow is for ground clearance as I use the car in autocross and solo 1 and I tend to bottom on occasion at speed. My engine builder suggested the hybrid 3" into 2.5" system as the exhaust temp should be low enough halfway down the car that the 3" is unnescessary. I'm going to see if pypes could accomadate with a 3/2.5 inch hybrid system but I'm not sure that they will.

The tech guys are telling me the 3" X is a little wider than the 2.5" X so the over the axle pipes may have a gap going into the muffler. In all likelyhood, you'd probably need to add a 2" segment at the muffler inlets or butt weld the pipe to the muffler. In the meantime, we're going to make up some 3" versions and test.

[ramair455ca]

Oh cool, would you possibly make a 3" crossflow muffler as well than? I think, for what it's worth, a system that maintains 3" past the x to the area under the rear seats then reduced to 2.5 would work well. I'm not really sure other that bragging rites what a full three inch in a crossflow would offer for benefits. That being said if you offers it I would buy it.

[70&71 TRANSAM OWNER]

I have a pypes syst on my 1971 TA best looking sounding.ground clear is perfect the best fitting syst I have ever had.Then on my 1970 went with a Flowmaster syst to quiet even with the HP crossflow .. most of the pipes had to be bent to fit ,front pipe comes in 3 parts why??no hangers bolts to floorboards again why??? car is lowerd the same as my 71 but front pipes drag the ground

[ramair455ca]

Originally Posted by 70&71 TRANSAM OWNER

I have a pypes syst on my 1971 TA best looking sounding.ground clear is perfect the best fitting syst I have ever had.Then on my 1970 went with a Flowmaster syst to quiet even with the HP crossflow .. most of the pipes had to be bent to fit ,front pipe comes in 3 parts why??no hangers bolts to floorboards again why??? car is lowerd the same as my 71 but front pipes drag the ground

Are the systems you used crossflow(1 muffler tranvers mount) or traditional( two mufflers under the rear seat area) ?

[Silverbird]

Originally Posted by ta man

I have a PYPES three inch X pipe up front for ground clearance you should have no problem then just use a flowmaster cone reducer to the 2 1/2 inch crossflow rear setup.On my car I preferred to use under the floorpan mufflers and save the crossflow area for a fuel pump and filter.

I second that, save the space for the fuel pump you'll want ...

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by ramair455ca

Oh cool, would you possibly make a 3" crossflow muffler as well than? I think, for what it's worth, a system that maintains 3" past the x to the area under the rear seats then reduced to 2.5 would work well. I'm not really sure other that bragging rites what a full three inch in a crossflow would offer for benefits. That being said if you offers it I would buy it.

We're going to see if we can do a full 3" system including 3" muffler. The wheels are in motion but the process may take a good portion of the Summer to confirm and put into production. We'll keep you updated. We also could use a volunteer for the testing. If anyone is in the southeastern PA, NJ Delaware area send me an e-mail for details.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 70&71 TRANSAM OWNER

I have a pypes syst on my 1971 TA best looking sounding.ground clear is perfect the best fitting syst I have ever had.Then on my 1970 went with a Flowmaster syst to quiet even with the HP crossflow .. most of the pipes had to be bent to fit ,front pipe comes in 3 parts why??no hangers bolts to floorboards again why??? car is lowerd the same as my 71 but front pipes drag the ground

That dronemaster crossflow sucks, its on my car now ( not for long) front pipes hang down tried 2 different down pipes. Im still not sure if they call it a 40 or an 80 but its way loud, and GASP drilling holes through my floor for the hangars, what stupidity is that? I did it, ads vibration to an already obnoxious mess that only sounds good at 20 feet behind car at idle. The premis of pipes entering through the front of a transverse muffler is interesting, but the system needs to be way up tight in rear and well the tail pipes come out at the bottom corner of the quarter and go straight back below the car, look dumb..belongs on an old NOVA lol.
SO Question : is the Pypes sytem quieter than that Dronemaster? what about Pypes with a Dynomax super turbo 17725 cross flow in it? is PYPES crossflow available with a Street pro?., website only lists a race pro??
Also, does the Pypes system allow for correct exit location and orginal tips?
have to ask, does the Pypes system need modification to fit? ( besides a cut or two)
1973 FB/455 RA ehaust manifolds
Thanks for the comments/ suggestions

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

the quarter and go straight back below the car, look dumb..belongs on an old NOVA lol.
SO Question : is the Pypes sytem quieter than that Dronemaster? what about Pypes with a Dynomax super turbo 17725 cross flow in it? is PYPES crossflow available with a Street pro?., website only lists a race pro??
Also, does the Pypes system allow for correct exit location and orginal tips?
have to ask, does the Pypes system need modification to fit? ( besides a cut or two)
1973 FB/455 RA ehaust manifolds
Thanks for the comments/ suggestions

The Pypes Crossflow is a lot quieter than the FM system.

The Pypes Race Pro muffler is performance matched to the system. No need for the DM17725 in this case.

No Street Pro is available for the crossflow system. That would defeat the purpose of the system. It's setup truely as a dual exhaust dual flow system. A chambered muffler kills flow on any crossflow system.

[ramair3formula]

Is the PYPES muffler 2 separate mufflers in 1 case?

[Ccass]

It's not really two separate mufflers. It's one case shared by two perforated pipes with two separate flow paths. The LH is totally separate from the RH. The Pypes crossflow is the only such system on the market designed like this. (originally designed by Tom Hand).