[LiL Jack]

To put some larger headers on my car Jon Gunter is cutting out the frame and going to install a removable tube in between the frame and also put a mid plate in it.

I will be going to 2-1/8"th to 2-1/4" headers and a 4" collector.

[LiL Jack]

One more!

And that is an All Pontiac front plate in the car.

[mysticmissle]

LJ how big were your old headers?

[TOP 452]

Taken some wt out Jack

[Gach]

Holy $h.it you where racing that with out a mid plate! Good deal, now you'll be able
to drop the pan with out taking the motor out.

[LiL Jack]

2" Headman headers for 67-68 fireterd.

Don, after we put everything back I lost about 8#'S.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Gach

Holy $h.it you where racing that with out a mid plate! Good deal, now you'll be able
to drop the pan with out taking the motor out.

I just put a front plate in it half way through 2009.

[ponjohn]

Jack are you running Tigers?

[Superchief455]

Jack,

have any pics of the removable tube and mid plate installed? Thinking i'm going to have to do something similar to get the big tube stepped headers to fit in my chassis.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Jack are you running Tigers?

Nah, just those junk E-head wide port.

I should have some pics of the removable center tube, mid-plate and rack soon.

[Superchief455]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Nah, just those junk E-head wide port.

I should have some pics of the removable center tube, mid-plate and rack soon.

If you could post them when you have them i would appreciate it... thanks

[John Langer]

Why put a removable center back in if you have a front and mid plate?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Jack. When I did my 65 Pro Street GTO. I cut from frame rail to frame rail and just installed a bent bolt in U shaped tube in moly to connect one side to the other plus the motor plate. Then a piece of straight steel for the lower control arm mount. Took over 25/35 lbs out if i remember correctly. But measure everything before you cut the center out with the lower control arm mount so you can get your lower arm geometry right. I also installed a rack and 70 Chevelle disc brakes.
I'll see if i have pics I know I took back then.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by John Langer

Why put a removable center back in if you have a front and mid plate?

I was over there a few days ago and we could not get the pan out without making a removable center bar. My oil pan is a 7 quart Moroso.

Even with a small "dip" in the center bar.

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

I was over there a few days ago and we could not get the pan out without making a removable center bar. My oil pan is a 7 quart Moroso.

Even with a small "dip" in the center bar.

So dont put one in, you don't need it. Read between the lines ya jacka$$.

[Tom Vaught]

With the center of the cross-member cut out, you don't have a lot of support to keep the side rails from twisting on impact with the ground. Putting in the removable center bar will keep that from happening. The camaros and firebirds have additional support at the front of their frames (another cross-member) to help in this situation. People still install the removable support on those cars in most cases. The tube doesn't have to be very large, just stiff enough so that it doesn't bend from the forces pushing towards the center of the car. There is a lot of leverage on that lower arm trying to go inward and upward, diaper boy.

Tom Vaught

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

With the center of the cross-member cut out, you don't have a lot of support to keep the side rails from twisting on impact with the ground. Putting in the removable center bar will keep that from happening. The camaros and firebirds have additional support at the front of their frames (another cross-member) to help in this situation. People still install the removable support on those cars in most cases. The tube doesn't have to be very large, just stiff enough so that it doesn't bend from the forces pushing towards the center of the car. There is a lot of leverage on that lower arm trying to go inward and upward, diaper boy.

Tom Vaught

OK, I have dropped my car more times then lil jack has kids and i dont have a removable x-member. You dont need it. I have a rigid engine limiter welded to what ever is remaining of my stock x member that bolts up to the stock engine mount on my block. It is not adjustible and slides in and out every time like a glove. If you look at his picture, he reinforced the stock x member with steel, that is what is done to mine. No theory here, just practical experience. I dont have a removable x member, i have dropped my car numerous times, you dont need it.

[John Langer]

The motor and mid plate are what will prevent the frame from twisting as well as the strut bars form the roll cage. The radiator support will offer additional support as well.

[Tom Vaught]

So does your f-bird still have the "second cross-member" in front of the normal crossmember, still or did they cut both of them out john?

Link is to show example of location of second crossmember for f-bird only.

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...158/prd158.htm


Tom Vaught

[John Langer]

The front x member was completely removed and a piece of moly tube was put back in its place to mount the rack. There is an integrated "crash bar" mounted on this bar that triangulates back to the lower control arm mounting point for reinforcement. The "crash bar" is the lowest point on the front of my car and what hits the gound and absorbs the impact.