[key006]

Two questions.
1. Does a 1956 Pontiac Chieftian have a X frame?
2. Is the Chieftian the cheaper model for that year?
Thanks in advance

[stevep]

I believe that it does have an X frame.
There are 3 models in a 56 Pontiac, starting from the bottom up: Chieftain 860, Chieftain 870 and a Starchief. Look at the trim tag on the firewall and read the 4 numbers after 56 and that will be your style #. If you have a Star Chief conv, it would read 56-2867. I think that the 860 would be model 25, the 870 is model 26 or 27 and the Star Chief is 28.

[Safari Larry]

Not bad stevep, you have the general idea but a little off.

1. Frame is X frame, see this link (pages in '56 shop manual)

2. There are two "series", 27 (Chieftain) and 28 (Star Chief). Star Chief has longer wheel base (except Safari) and is more expensive. Differences in Chieftain 860 and Chieftain 870 are in trim only, 870 with a little nicer trim and interior -- but the untrained eye wouldn't be able to tell the difference. See this link for available models.

See www.PontiacSafari.com for information on 1955-57 Pontiacs. Click on the "Pontiac Info" link and scroll down to the 1956 section.

[stevep]

OK, so basically the 860 is the base Chieftain and the 870 is the Chieftain Deluxe.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by stevep

OK, so basically the 860 is the base Chieftain and the 870 is the Chieftain Deluxe.

Correct. The Safari was the odd one. It was built on the shorter 860 (27 series) chassis but with all the Star Chief trim and options, including standard 4-barrel and the new Strato-Flight transmission.

The Chieftains had the older dual-range but could be ordered with the Strato-Flight. Ten 1956 Safaris had standard transmission installed at the factory.

[stevep]

Most of the 56 Chieftains that I have seen had Strato-Flights.

[Safari Larry]

Interesting Steve, most '56 Chieftains I've seen have had dual-range. See attached excerpt from Oct 1955 Service Craftsman News, p.116 where it says the dual-range (D-56) will be used on 27 Series cars (Chieftains) and the Strato-Flight (P-56) on the 28 Series (Star Chiefs). That doesn't mean they did it that way through the year but that seemed to be the plan and is consistent with my observations. I've never seen a Star Chief with dual-range.

[Steve Barcak]

Originally Posted by key006

Two questions.
1. Does a 1956 Pontiac Chieftian have a X frame?
2. Is the Chieftian the cheaper model for that year?
Thanks in advance

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Larry here, pictures or no.
I do not consider 1956 Pontiacs as having "X frames". They have a ladder type frame with parallel rails with an x member between them.
A real X frame has no side rails. Chevys 58-64, Pontiacs 58-60, early 60s Buicks and others had real X frames.

On a 56 Pontiac, the x in the center was a brace. That would not be considered a real X frame.

Steve

Hosting-
Thur-Sun April 8-11, 2010 12th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix www.pontiacheaven.org
Sunday April 11, 2010 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org

[Safari Larry]

Thanks Steve, I guess I didn't understand the definition of "X frame". The shop manuals (1955-57) calls it "Straight X I-beam cross member four way cantilever frame". Whew!

A cantilever is a beam supported on only one end.

I'm planning on going to your Pontiac Heaven event next April. I've been wanting to go for years.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Safari Larry

Interesting Steve, most '56 Chieftains I've seen have had dual-range. See attached excerpt from Oct 1955 Service Craftsman News, p.116 where it says the dual-range (D-56) will be used on 27 Series cars (Chieftains) and the Strato-Flight (P-56) on the 28 Series (Star Chiefs). That doesn't mean they did it that way through the year but that seemed to be the plan and is consistent with my observations. I've never seen a Star Chief with dual-range.

I have only rebuilt 1 56 Chieftain with a Dual Range. Being a transmission guy, I do look at what trans that a car has and most of the 56 Chieftains that I have seen have had a Strato Flight in them.

I understand Steve's point about the X frame and would agree, now that I understand the whole concept. All I knew was there was an X in the frame.

[Rocky 389]

Mine and my buddy's 56 cheiftain 2 door hardtops both had slant-pan hydros in them...I've heard a vicious rumor the 56 only Pontiac/Olds/caddy slant-pan trannys had one extra set of clutches in 'em....truth or BS?
BTW, Olds 88 and super 88s sometimes used the slant-pan too while all the 98s used the "gooey-go" trans. God, I hated those things. Blew my 56 Olds 98 ragtop's tranny all over the street one afternoon, being stupid and 17....
Jim Dunnnigan's 56 super 88 had the 220 HP 324 cu in dual exhaust, 4 barrel engine with a factory slant-pan hydro...was an animal for the times. Miss those days.

[stevep]

I have only done 1 56 Slant Pan (in a 56 88) and I don't remember if it had an extra clutch!
BTW, No Slant Pans in Caddies, just 54-56 Olds and 55-56 Pontiacs.

[Safari Larry]

Originally Posted by Rocky 389

I've heard a vicious rumor the 56 only Pontiac/Olds/caddy slant-pan trannys had one extra set of clutches in 'em....truth or BS?

There were minor modifications to the dual-range (slant pan) going from 1955 to 56. The rear clutch multiple disk clutch pack was increased from 7 to 8 drive/driven disks. Shift speeds were modified slightly through mods in the valve body. Output shaft was changed. The 55/56 dual range transmissions do not interchange without modification to the output shaft or drive shaft.

Steve P, I ask a friend who has worked with 55/56 Pontiacs for many years and he thinks he has seen about an equal number 56 dual range and Strato-Flights in Chieftains. He also suggested the option might be regional. Country folk tend not to select as many options. I emailed Rick Gonser so see what he's seen but haven't heard back yet.

My first hand experience is limited but I do watch the cars on ebay and look to see which transmission 56 Chieftains have -- if I can see the gear position indicator. I see more with the dual-range. There are two 56 Chieftains on ebay right now and one appears to have the Strato-Flight (shift lever in up position) and the other appears to be dual range. I guess I'll be paying more attention to '56 Chieftain transmissions in the future.

My 56 Chieftain 870 wagon parts car had the dual range.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Rocky 389

Mine and my buddy's 56 cheiftain 2 door hardtops both had slant-pan hydros in them...I've heard a vicious rumor the 56 only Pontiac/Olds/caddy slant-pan trannys had one extra set of clutches in 'em....truth or BS?
BTW, Olds 88 and super 88s sometimes used the slant-pan too while all the 98s used the "gooey-go" trans. God, I hated those things. Blew my 56 Olds 98 ragtop's tranny all over the street one afternoon, being stupid and 17....
Jim Dunnnigan's 56 super 88 had the 220 HP 324 cu in dual exhaust, 4 barrel engine with a factory slant-pan hydro...was an animal for the times. Miss those days.

Rocky,

I have a 56 98 in the shop right now with a service manual inside it. It states that the Dual Coupling was standard on Super 88 and 98.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Safari Larry

There were minor modifications to the dual-range (slant pan) going from 1955 to 56. The rear clutch multiple disk clutch pack was increased from 7 to 8 drive/driven disks. Shift speeds were modified slightly through mods in the valve body. Output shaft was changed. The 55/56 dual range transmissions do not interchange without modification to the output shaft or drive shaft.

Steve P, I ask a friend who has worked with 55/56 Pontiacs for many years and he thinks he has seen about an equal number 56 dual range and Strato-Flights in Chieftains. He also suggested the option might be regional. Country folk tend not to select as many options. I emailed Rick Gonser so see what he's seen but haven't heard back yet.

My first hand experience is limited but I do watch the cars on ebay and look to see which transmission 56 Chieftains have -- if I can see the gear position indicator. I see more with the dual-range. There are two 56 Chieftains on ebay right now and one appears to have the Strato-Flight (shift lever in up position) and the other appears to be dual range. I guess I'll be paying more attention to '56 Chieftain transmissions in the future.

My 56 Chieftain 870 wagon parts car had the dual range.

I agree with the regional thing.

[Pontirag]

I never knew Pontiacs came with anything other than the dual range hydros's until 57. I know its hard to support all those bizzar GM trany's they came out with from the mid 50's until the mid 60's. alot of tranny shops got there start in the business due to GM's tranny faux pas. The hydro rules from the lat 30's up until like 62 though and that says a alot. Arnie Used them behind supercharged 421's untill the 400 came out and even then he was replacing the 400's after every couple of passes. I'd love to pick the brain of the guy who built his tranny's.