[Vic69goat]

First off, I want to say that I have scoured the forum for any scrap of information that may help me, I have tried many yet to no avail. I have a 69' GTO that is causing me great anguish and a slow death in trying to align the hood. I have a significant gap on the passenger side with almost zero gap on the driver's side. As the many body alignment information portals elude to, I started from the 1/4 panels and worked forward during the alignment. I have changed hoods, changed hood hinges, opened the holes in the hood hinges, rebuilt door hinges, adjusted said door hinges, today I lifted the body off the car and shifted it, all with no luck. The only way I am able to see any progress in splitting the gap delta between the two fenders is to put some thick washers between the fender and the hinge on the driver side, which I think is not too kosher. The fenders are the originals and as far as I can tell the car was not in any kind of front end collision. It did have some damage to the passenger side rear 1/4, right next to the tail light, which caused me to replace the 1/4 skin. The bare metal spots are starting to rust due to the sweat and tears. Any information will be appreciated.

[Formula8]

Welcome. How is the door fit along the rockers and against the A pilar? Compare one side to the other. If you can get one of the doors, to move either in or out, then you could match the offending fender to the door and thus opening up your hood gap. My guess is that the driver's side door needs to come out but it could very well be a combination of both doors.

[400 4spd.]

Is the latch out? If it's too far over towrds the driver's side, NOTHING else you change will allow it to center.
Now, assuming the latch IS out and the hood is still too tight along the lt. side, open your hood all of the way. Lay both hands along the outer left edge of the hood (in the hinge area) and shove it really hard towards the passenger side. You may have to do this repeatedly to get the hinge arms to give.
Sometimes it also requires loosening the fender bolt behind the hinge, the one that goes into the firewall. This eliminates the chance of the inner fender brace being twisted, causing the hinges to angle when up.

[opnwide]

That exact thing happened to me when reassembling my TA. Play with the side to side slop in the hinge to hood bolts first. That wasn't quite enough for me (only 1/8" difference) so I actually had to BEND one of my hood hinges a little. That made all the difference in the world. The hinge must have become bent somewhere during the restoration.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

Is the latch out? If it's too far over towrds the driver's side, NOTHING else you change will allow it to center.
Now, assuming the latch IS out and the hood is still too tight along the lt. side, open your hood all of the way. Lay both hands along the outer left edge of the hood (in the hinge area) and shove it really hard towards the passenger side. You may have to do this repeatedly to get the hinge arms to give.
Sometimes it also requires loosening the fender bolt behind the hinge, the one that goes into the firewall. This eliminates the chance of the inner fender brace being twisted, causing the hinges to angle when up.

What he said. A good tweaking will do wonders if the latch doesn't do it for you.

[n20ta2]

If you already tried diffrent hinges to no avail then one of your doors is out.How is the rocker panel lined up with the leading edge of the door?On my passenger side I had to alongate the bolt holes in the hinges to pull the door out flush with the rocker,no body damager ever on my car but after soda blasting the hinge peices they were a different colour then the rest of my car.

[Vic69goat]

Thanks all for the quick response.

First off, I do not have a latch installed yet, I was about to when my misery began. How about hypothetically, we ignore the gaps from the "A" pillar back and only look at the relationship of the gaps in the front clip of the car. I currently have about 3/16ths of shim stock in the driver side "A" pillar fender mount hole and no shim stock in the passenger's side. It seems that I can't balance the two shim points to get an equal gap at the top of the fenders to hood. I am sure they are not supposed to be actually "equal" but I feel I should be able to move those fender ends in and out to close the gap thereby allowing me to continue adjusting forward. I have moved the radiator core support to the extreme outer limits left and right. And maybe I am so focused in this area that I am blinded by the obvious.

Fellow goat wrangler
Myopic Vic

[400 4spd.]

FWIW, it is rare to need the exact thickness in shims at matching left and right locations, so don't concern yourself with that. If ON BOTH SIDES - the hood/fender gap is consistent in width from back corner to front corner (regardless of each sides gap amount), AND you have a consistent gap along the leading hood edge-to-bumper, you have centered the front sheetmetal. It sounds and looks like that's where you're at. In your case I really think you need to try shoving the hood sideways.
Here is an old bodyman trick. If you can finesse a 2x4 about 48" long, here is another way to move the hood if the hinges are too stubborn. Working near the left hinge area, place one end of the board down into the fender just above where the driver's hinge mounts. Let it rest against the inner fender edge and with the board vertical and against the hood edge, slowly put pressure against the hood edge. Lean into it pushing sideways and then check hood alignment. Repeat with increasing pressure as needed.

And always save the latch for last!

[n20ta2]

He mentioned in the post that he tried different hood hinges and even hoods so I doubt he has a bent hinge.VIC69goat you cant ignore the gaps from the fender back,there is where your problems start.Are your doors flush with the rockers when closed? They should be flush at the rocker and line up with the quarter perfectly when closed. Also it looks to me from the picture that the nose is sticking out a bit from the fenders,it should be flush,the gap on the passenger side doesnt look huge maybe just a bit oversized you are tight somewhere.

[PaulatFast]

You do not have a door issue. 400 4speed and I have both done countless 68 to 72 a-bodies over the years. Listen to his advice, tweak the thing until it closes with a close to correct gap. Don't overthink the issue. EVERY car we do gets the hinges tweaked in this manner. IF the bolt behind the hinge to the firewall is in the propper place, allowing the hinge to be very close to Perfectly vertical on both fenders. Remember that the rubber cushions will help align the hood to fender gaps after paint and assembly. Moving a door in or out will do nothing because when you move the fender out to match it, the hood will come out with it. Trust those of us that do this for a living.

[Vic69goat]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't have a problem with bending a hinge to end this prolonged prostate exam. It does irritate me that at some point before everything was removed and re-assembled (some not by me) it did not need the hinges tweaked. I like the technique 400 4spd suggested.
As far as the gaps around the doors, the passenger side dose need a little bit more attention to get it right. That side of the car has seen more surgery than the other, replaced quarter, replaced rocker panel and fender extension. The driver side gaps I am pretty happy with right now. My fear is that something in the additional surgery that the passenger side went through caused this pain but when I think of the "A" pillar as a fixed point and move forward in the alignment I think I can exclude anything done before the "A" pillar, (just for this experiment, I know I will have to deal with the deal with the doors later). I think I can just focused on the geometry of the fenders-hood-radiator core-bumper-frame relationships just to see if I can move the hood over. If I can, then I would maybe understand where the problem lies. Hopefully, I can take all your advice from this week and knock this out on Sunday thereby moving forward.
Friends and family are starting to make fun of me.

[valkyrie9901]

Do those years have the rubber guide blocks on the inside of the fenders?If so,were they installed in the pic's.Also check the area along the edge is not bent in that contacts the blocks.......JB.

[Old Goat 67]

Friends and family are starting to make fun of me.

Let them do, keeps them occupied.

[n20ta2]

Your right paul the hood will come over with the fender so if the passenger side door and fender is over to far it will be tight on the drivers side .the pictures are not clear enough to show where the doors are in relation to the rockers.I may not do this for a living but im no idiot,I had the exact problem he had and it was a door issue.He mentioned himself in the last post that the passenger side needed more tweaking,you cant move on untill the doors are perfect.

[rememberfireball#22]

I am retired bodyshop mgr and Ins adjuster. I have about 30 years in bodyshop/collision repair.The advise that 400/4-speed gave is on the money. We kept different length 2x4 's in shop for this very purpose. It also works on doors very well. I toured a GM plant bodyshop years ago and saw them actually doing same thing. It ain't rocket science. Good luck.

[Vic69goat]

Thanks for all the good info. I have some direction for this weekend. I should have made this post a few weeks ago but as the ol' lady says about me "That is one stubborn S.O.B"

[PaulatFast]

Originally Posted by n20ta2

Your right paul the hood will come over with the fender so if the passenger side door and fender is over to far it will be tight on the drivers side .the pictures are not clear enough to show where the doors are in relation to the rockers.I may not do this for a living but im no idiot,I had the exact problem he had and it was a door issue.He mentioned himself in the last post that the passenger side needed more tweaking,you cant move on untill the doors are perfect.

No, the hood will not move the same distance as the fender. I was not insinuating you were an idiot. I was saying listen to those of us that DO THIS FOR A LIVING, EVERYDAY, and at a high level. The fender to hood gaps HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DOORS! No matter where the fenders end up, too far right, too far left, too close, too far apart, you can still split the difference equally and acheive an even hood gap. Do you know how I know? I do this everyday. So are you saying we are idiots?

[Formula8]

Both n20TA and I read that the hood hinge holes had been widened, different hinges used and different hoods. If the problem remained the same, all logic would lead to that the problem lies elsewhere. Anyway, if you are happy with the door alignment and the caveman routine on the hood works, God bless and you can move on to better things. I think our point was to confirm that the doors are right before moving on. I'm not calling anyone who has responded an old hack but if I had a dollar for every old hack that knew better than everyone else and then promptly screwed my car up I would be one rich MF right now. After replacing one new trunk floor and two new quarter panels after someone with decades of experience F'd it up, maybe I am a bit jaded. But hey, at least I can say that I have years of experience redoing things that I paid people with decades of experience F'd up.

[400 4spd.]

Boy, this topic went bad quick! Sorry, Vic. Please let us know what you do to solve this problem.
To Paul and rememberfireball#22, I appreciate the fact that both of you have spent many years putting cars together. It's nice to know that others with real world car building experience find my advice to be on track in this situation, or at least worth trying. I've learned a little about cars since I started doing this 34 years ago, so I like to share what I know and help others. I've also learned a little about people. Sometimes it's not worth the effort to try and convince those who don't like your advice that you know what you are talking about. And maybe I am wrong in my assessment of what Vic should try. But three of us know that "the caveman routine" will certainly work in many situations and will not cause damage. Maybe this is one of them, maybe not. Hopefully Vic will update us.

Formula8, why do you hire butchers? You're an insurance adjuster, surely you can ask around and find someone who takes pride in the work they do. Hopefully not all of them have switched over to restoration work yet. Just be thankful you aren't on the other end of the stick - a bodyman having to work off of insurance company estimates and getting screwed daily by someone with a laptop for a brain. (The computer program says so, and it is always right. No need for common sense when I have this computer.) Not saying you're that kind of adjuster.
If I had every dollar an adjuster screwed me out of during the 25+ years I spent doing collision work, I would be a rich MF myself.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

cause damage. Maybe this is one of them, maybe not. Hopefully Vic will update us.

Formula8, why do you hire butchers? You're an insurance adjuster, surely you can ask around and find someone who takes pride in the work they do. Hopefully not all of them have switched over to restoration work yet. Just be thankful you aren't on the other end of the stick - a bodyman having to work off of insurance company estimates and getting screwed daily by someone with a laptop for a brain. (The computer program says so, and it is always right. No need for common sense when I have this computer.) Not saying you're that kind of adjuster.
If I had every dollar an adjuster screwed me out of during the 25+ years I spent doing collision work, I would be a rich MF myself.

Insurance companies hire butchers because they won't pay a decent wage to repair a car correctly. Their answer to everything is junk parts and pay half of what the estimate is /rig it up to make it look good not make it right.


MIke