[66tri-hb]

I purchased this car from a old gent about two years ago after watching it for years sticking out of the gerage. It is a true 66 gto convertible tri-power 4 speed that was parked in 78 when the tag expired. I have gone threw the engine and have it ready to install but have been told by many that I need to convert to front disc as the old drums are not very afficient now. I have also been told to just convet the disc and not make it power to keep the original look. I am going to replace the bushing and ball joints while the engine is out any sugestions on what to use-kit wise?

Big question but looking for some input. I only plan on driving the car around town and to some shows

Thanks Hunter

[meanolgoat]

Hunter I have converted a 67 GTO from four wheel drums to Disk Fronts. There are several aftermarket kits available that come with everthing you need, depending on your budget. You can also look at the kit avaialbe from scarebird.com which uses a combination of your parts and commen parts to later model cars.

When I modified my 67, I went to a wrecking yard and removed the disk brake system from a 71 GTO (Spindles, Rotors, Calipers, Backing Plate, Proportioning Valve and Master Cylinder) and it was a direct bolt on replacement.

I also have a 65 Catalina Convertible that I drive often with four wheel drum brakes. Do the disks stop better then the drums? Yes. but I know this, so I allow extra room between me and other cars to compensate. I have no fear driving the Catalina in rush hour traffic with drum brakes, The only consideration you have to seriously consider is that everyone else around you can stop quicker then you can.
So the first thing you have to decide is: Do you want to change your 66 to disks or keep the drums. Then decide on your budget and we can make more informed suggestions from there.

[Socrates]

Scariest ride I ever took was driving my 66 home with its manual brakes, single rez master cylinder and 4 wheel drums. The weekend after driving it home it had the front discs from a 69 GTO on it with a proper dual MC and a vac booster, and the car is amazingly more fun to drive. My 68 convert also had 4 wheel drums, also a scary ride, and disc made it a joy to drive, not a white knuckle terror.

Convert your car to disc, actually drive and enjoy the car, make it safe not just for your well being, but for your passengers and those innocent folks on the road around you. Rebuild the front suspension while you're at it, too. You'll be absolutely amazed at how much better the car drives and how much more you'll actually want to drive it. Save the old front end junk in a box, and even keep it in the trunk to show the anal retentive retards at shows if you really must impress those sorts of lowly individuals...

[Old Goat 67]

Do it!
Front disk brakes make it better, but not like having the power from a hydroboost booster.
Makes it more like the brakes of todays cars.

Do a search here and other sites, you will find a bunch of good info.

Here is one;
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=593657

[Blue '66]

I ran my '66 GTO for many years back in the 80s with 4 wheel drum and no power steering.Always an adventure,not good ones with the drums.If you want to drive it around "confidently" you should do front discs.I first used s10/cutlass discs but since I am having the car restored I am going with 1970 A body front discs and 11" rear drums.

[1967Tempest]

I know it is NOT original on most muscle, but I LOVE front disc brakes. STOPS on a dime. Literally. I keep a dime at the end of the road. The way I went was around 500$. And I am 99% of the time the only 67 Tempest at the show and disc brakes.. forget about it. I have plenty of pics and if you want. Plus changing drums and shoes..PITA!!!

[66tri-hb]

Thanks guys
I will be changing this car to front disc. I will probably just buy the kit off the net instead of finding old parts just to save time. Let me get it correct though, is everyone saying to make the brakes power with a booster and not install front disc with just manual boost? So I need the kit with the brake booster, spindles, calipers,etc.

Yes, It was a scarry ride the first time I drove it up to 60 and then tried to stop.

Thanks again

Hunter

[Jerry H.]

Yes, It was a scarry ride the first time I drove it up to 60 and then tried to stop.

It was scary only because the brakes were in poor condition, NOT specifically because they were drum brakes. IF these brakes are properly maintained, and you don't drive like an idiot, they are more than adequate to stop the car. I know I will take heat for this, we drove them for years back in the day and didn't think anything about it.

Sure, if want them to stop like a brand new car, then you need new car technology, and that means power disc brakes. Me, I prefer them like they came, with PROPERLY MAINTAINED manual drum brakes.

[Old Goat 67]

What heat, Jerry?
I get heat for changing from original.

To each his own.

[cosgrove]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

It was scary only because the brakes were in poor condition, NOT specifically because they were drum brakes. IF these brakes are properly maintained, and you don't drive like an idiot, they are more than adequate to stop the car. I know I will take heat for this, we drove them for years back in the day and didn't think anything about it.

Sure, if want them to stop like a brand new car, then you need new car technology, and that means power disc brakes. Me, I prefer them like they came, with PROPERLY MAINTAINED manual drum brakes.

I agree Jerry. My Firebird had manual drums front and rear, the brakes worked very well on the street. All components were well maintained. The drums were nice because you have zero drag when adjusted right. The front wheels would spin free with one push. The problem came at the strip once I was running over 120 mph or so. Brake fade at high speed becomes an issue. After reaching 150+ mph I changed over to Wilwood discs and manual master. The Wilwoods work great without a booster.

[Cheesehead]

I'm glad to see Jerry's post. I am concerned with taking value from the car if I change over to disc fronts.

[Old Goat 67]

Well, seems like what's needed is a couple of "getting back to basics" questions here.

If you are more concerned with looking at it or selling it, then I fully concur with the "keep it original" mindset.

If, on the other hand, you are more concerned with driving it the way it was intended to be driven, then being able to stop and or maneuver out of harm's way makes the value of the car considerably much more with it in one piece. Not to mention the drivers value.

Whomever is here after I'm gone can do what they want with it, because all the original parts are up in the loft and nothings ever been butchered on the vehicle.

Charles

[b-man]

When everybody else on the road has brakes better than yours, then even having properly maintained 4-wheel drums on your car becomes an issue.

Keeping a safe distance between your car and the one in front of you doesn't always work, when someone decides to quickly move into the big space you're saving in front of you and slams on the brakes it's too late.

Fixing your car after running into someone would be a pretty bad outcome from refusing to change with the times. Much more expensive than a disc brake conversion.

Better brakes can never be a bad thing.

If you're building a 'correct' show car, then leave the 4 wheel drums. Otherwise, enjoy a better and safer driving experience with the modern front disc brakes.

Manual front disc brakes stop just fine, the power booster isn't a must-have unless you're a person of very small stature who can't press the pedal hard enough.

I have two '64 A-body Pontiacs that I have converted to manual 11" factory front discs (both setups are from a '69 Grand Prix), both stop nicely without any extreme amount of pedal pressure. I also have another manual brake '64 with 12" B-body front discs and spindles, this one stops the best of the bunch.

By 1967 front disc brakes were an option on the A-body cars, and GM was late to the party on that change.

There were a lot of GTOs built with very powerful engines. GM expected them to be stopped from the 100+ MPH speeds these cars were able to quickly attain with the standard 4-wheel 9-1/2" drum brakes. It seems crazy to me that disc brakes were not standard equipment on at least the GTO line for '67 and later.

Now don't get me wrong, I do admire those who keep their cars all original and well-maintained. Most of the 'over-40' members here grew up driving cars with 4-wheel drums and we all managed just fine.

However if you're the least bit apprehensive about driving and enjoying your old Pontiac more because in the back of your mind you have never been happy with the car's stopping ability, it's time for a brake upgrade.

[Old Goat 67]

Well said. B-man

[65gto69]

I upgraded my front drums to disc using scarebirds formula. The my car is manual, and although I had the car out only one time around the block after putting on the discs, I must say the drums stopped way better, almost would go through the window, just like a power setup. With the discs up front, I have to lay on them as hard as I can and I coast a little ways before stopping. Maybe they still need to be broken in since everything is brand new, but I do hope to see some improvements, or I am not going to be happy.

My brother has the same issue with his 67 chevelle with front manual discs, he has to stand on his pedal also to get his car to stop. I have also talked with other people in my area with classic cars and disc brakes with a manual setup and they all sya the same thing my brother and myself are experiencing.

Car is more scary now than it was with the drums.

just my thoughts at the current.

Mark

[b-man]

Originally Posted by 65gto69

I upgraded my front drums to disc using scarebirds formula. The my car is manual, and although I had the car out only one time around the block after putting on the discs, I must say the drums stopped way better, almost would go through the window, just like a power setup. With the discs up front, I have to lay on them as hard as I can and I coast a little ways before stopping. Maybe they still need to be broken in since everything is brand new, but I do hope to see some improvements, or I am not going to be happy.

My brother has the same issue with his 67 chevelle with front manual discs, he has to stand on his pedal also to get his car to stop. I have also talked with other people in my area with classic cars and disc brakes with a manual setup and they all sya the same thing my brother and myself are experiencing.

Car is more scary now than it was with the drums.

just my thoughts at the current.

Mark

Mark,

I think the problems that you and your friends are having with pedal effort may be the wrong master cylinder bore size, you could be using one that's too big.

There is a 15/16" bore 1977 Monte Carlo manual disc brake master that is supposed to be the ticket. This same master was used for a variety of different GM intermediates, I've seen the same one spec'd for a 1977 Chevrolet Malibu v6 w/manual brakes.

I had always been able to pull my '64 GTO down from 110 MPH at the finish line to less than 30 MPH in time to make the very first turnoff at out local 1/4-mile track. It has the 11" front discs, and to be accurate a pair of 11" Ford rear drums (9" Ford rear end).

The GTO is now used on the street exclusively and I've been very happy with the way the brakes have been working. I have always had a very confident-feeling set of brakes on this car.

My Tempest has the 12" front discs but still retains the stock 9-1/2" rear drums. This thing stops impressively well for a car with essentially nothing but good used factory junkyard brake parts. The only new parts I used were the manual master cylinder, rubber brake hoses and brake pads.

The nice thing about these factory disc brake conversions is 14" wheels will fit with the 11" discs and 15" will fit with the 12" discs. As long as you have disc brake compatible wheels of course.

Soon the Tempest will be upgraded to another GM factory brake setup that is far superior to what it has now, 14" front and 13.4" rear discs from a C6 Corvette Z06. I'll be 'stuck' using 18" wheels to clear these brakes:http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=576137&page=6

The Z06 brakes be run off either a '77 Monte Carlo 15/16" bore manual master or an aluminum Wilwood 7/8" bore manual master, I'm leaning towards the GM master to save costs ($30 vs $200). Both of these manual master cylinders were recommended by the company who sold me the Z06 brakes, most of the guys upgrading their cars to the bigger modern discs all around run manual brakes.

Bart

[Old Goat 67]

Car is more scary now than it was with the drums.

I would then have to say that something is not set up properly. Proportioning valve maybe.

Having added disk brakes on the front from the original power drum setup 20 years ago, and then upgrading to hydroboost recently, the addition of the disk brakes up front was a great improvement from the drums, but not as dramatic as the increase of hydraulic pressure to the wheel cylinders that the hydoboost unit provided.

Doubling the pressure at the wheel cylinders was the key to making this beast stop in way that I makes me feel is the margin of safety I have always wanted in a machine that can stop as well as it can run.

Charles

[1967Tempest]

Yeah, mine didn't stop either, but NOW, WHOA!!!!!!! I have the Scarebird set-up.


This is my testimony. Might help..

http://sites.google.com/site/nickdav...ng-her-to-stop

I just got the new video recorder.. Upon request, I will slam on the brakes for you on tape!!

Dave

[Scarebird]

As B-man sez; having the right master for manual makes all the difference ( I will definitely examine this Monte master for manual applications). One thing most of us forget is that when these 4 drum cars were new, they had asbestos shoes. The Ford crowd has it even worse as something with the drum geometry makes almost ineffective with the new compounds.

[65gto69]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Yeah, mine didn't stop either, but NOW, WHOA!!!!!!! I have the Scarebird set-up.


This is my testimony. Might help..

http://sites.google.com/site/nickdav...ng-her-to-stop

I just got the new video recorder.. Upon request, I will slam on the brakes for you on tape!!

Dave

Dave, that is good info, but I have manual brakes, not power.

I will have to email scarebird and talk with him to see if he has any suggestions.

Thanks guys, sorry to hi-jack, didn't want to do that just wanted to state my experience.

Now bacj to the original and originator of the topic at hand.

Mark