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#1
11-02-2008, 02:24 PM
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Why is the GTO the first muscle car?
Why is the '64 GTO known as the first muscle car? Why don't the SD Catalinas and Grand Prix count?
And why would Pontiac cut all ties with racing and then come out with the '64 GTO aka the first muscle car?
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#2
11-02-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
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#3
11-02-2008, 02:28 PM
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That makes sense. It's funny that a big ol GTO is a midsize car. Same with like Road Runners. Those are some big ass cars to be considered mid sized. Thanks
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#4
11-02-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
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#5
11-02-2008, 02:36 PM
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They're huge!
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#6
11-02-2008, 05:31 PM
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Lots smaller than a 59 Buick Electra or 59 Star Chief 62 Catalina are.
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Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated    
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#7
11-02-2008, 05:33 PM
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The Catalina isn't even that big compared to the '59s but it's still a beast.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#8
11-02-2008, 05:55 PM
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Restorer mag has a feature car this month. A '66 Ford fullsize with the "7 Liter" option. 4 sp, buckets, console... The 428 was tamed for this car. Hydraulic lifters, exhaust, etc..
It was not labeled as a muscle car. The solid lifter, midsized cars were called that. This car they summed it up well. Brute power, but smooth. '66 and '67 you also saw the Caprice, Cat 2+2, and Chrysler had theirs too. All with avail 4 speeds, buckets, tachs, but by no means muscle cars. (Too heavy) The GTO got that rep. Hands down.
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1970 Burgundy GTO hardtop. CVMS built 455 4sp.  May the Torque be with you! John. |
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#9
11-02-2008, 09:21 PM
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You guys didn't answer his second question... Pontiac was not happy with the racing ban; that was a corporate directive. What they did instead was "take it to the street", that is, focusing on cars that performed well on the street (and just happened to do well at the race track as a result). 
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
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#10
11-02-2008, 09:45 PM
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yeah!....what he said
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1970 Burgundy GTO hardtop. CVMS built 455 4sp. May the Torque be with you! John. |
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#11
11-02-2008, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
They call some of the big cars full size muscle, which is probably more accurate.
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Two 1975 455 Grandvilles & '79 455 Trans Am ‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88) ‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8 ‘23 Lexus LS500 awd ‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke & countless Jeeps & off road vehicles. 
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#12
11-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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I guess you have to draw the line somewhere. My friends '66 coronet sure seems a lot bigger than my 62 Cat. But yall answered my quesion, it is supposed to be a mid size car. What is considered mid size is another topic I guess.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#13
11-02-2008, 10:54 PM
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Ponitac didn't cut its ties to racing, GM did. Some forget [or are too young to know] that Pontiac has always been owned and operated by GM and was never an independent car maker.
But, the divisional staff found a loop hole to get GTO option package to market. Also, the Tempest was a mid sized in 1964 and dont compare to today's cars. The term muscle car is more specific than 'performance car', 'racing car', or 'drag car'. Another thing young 'car people' need to know is the GTO was part of the Pontiac mid sized line and not a "Mustang competitior" with its own body styling. They are unaware that Pontiac sold 'regular' cars like Tempest, LeMans, Catalina, Star Chief, etc, etc etc,,,,, Last edited by chicagoland; 11-02-2008 at 10:56 PM. Reason: correct spelling |
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#14
11-02-2008, 10:58 PM
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You're right, That's what I meant. It was GM not Pontiac.
Of course it's not a Mustang competitor because it was built before the mustang.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#15
11-02-2008, 11:05 PM
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Yeah, I should remember people here know Ponchos way more than other car boards. I've seen many [uninformed] call GTO "Pontiac's answer to Mustang" and scream at my computer!
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#16
11-02-2008, 11:26 PM
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I may be young but that doesn't mean I'm Pontiac stupid. I think I'm doin' alright for my age.
Mustangs never stood a chance anyway
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
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#17
11-02-2008, 11:32 PM
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PH, the GTO was out approximately 8 to 10 months ahead of the Mustang. 64 GtOs were out around August and September time line of 1963, where as the 64 1/2 Mustang was out somewhere around April, May of 1964. Out meaning for sale.
I don't have the actual dates for either but I think Keith would have the GTO dates for when they first hit the market. As for Mustangs out for sale in 64 I'm only guessing, I can't remember the actual date.
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 Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
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#18
11-02-2008, 11:47 PM
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I have to shake my head at people who think a mid sized car is a honda accord. Nope. that honda is just a pregant roller skate to me! Can you believe the nutjobs of the epa consider anything with a 112 wheelbase or longer a "Full size"car!!!.
 To me, a midsize car has a 110 or longer wheelbase, and a fullsize has to be at least a 118" wheelbase!!! |
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#19
11-02-2008, 11:57 PM
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Imagine what they'd think the size would be for an old Crosly in today's world. I believe that was smaller than a Mini Cooper. Same with the BMW Izeta.
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Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
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#20
11-08-2008, 06:04 PM
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It's all relative
My '73 midsized LeMans GT is actually wider and longer than my late model Cadillac Deville which is today's full sized luxury car. My Cadillac Fleetwood is FULL sized in every sense of the word, actaully longer and wider than my late model Suburban.
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