[guccieng]

hello all. i've really come to appreciate the small but dedicated crowd in these forums. i'm torn with my new (6 months or so now) 'bird. i bought it because i've always liked the look and wanted a new toy to play with while my c-word is in the shop spending all of my money. but a crazy thing happened: i'm really starting to love this 'bird! it needed alot of details tended to, but as i make it better and better, the logic of 'it's not a hobby, it's a disease' thing kicks in. it's not original at all, but i like the f.a.s.t. (factory appearing stock) way of thinking and i'm doing all i can to not put it on jackstands and strip the whole thing down and modify the hell out of it (while keeping the outside like it is). i really don't like the term 'pro-touring'; in fact, i hate it. it's not pro and touring is boring. i perfer 'modern update', which is to make the car as good as it can be with available parts while maintaining it's original identity. so, no IRS, no corvette subframe, etc. my engine (which has less than 2000 miles, rebuilt by PO) has alot of blowby (probably a ring), so a rebuild is in order. i have the 17 heads and the snowball begins rolling! is there any way to stop the snowball? if so, why should i? if you saw this car at a show and found nothing underneath original or stock, would you be disappointed? so, should i highly modify, or no?

[69TAPOSER]

Your Bird looks perfect as is to me. I'd leave it alone and mess with the 'Maro.

Phil

[Pearlbluebird]

Why mess with success. The car is beautiful as is. Nice paint. What color is it ?
I would rebuild the motor with ram air cam though if it needs to be gone through.

[boater bill]

Love the look!!!

I would mess with the 'maro, since those tend to be more highly modified and less of a loss when done nicely.

If I had your bird in my garage, I would get front disk brakes if they are not there yet, bigger front sway bar, add a rear bar, new shocks, KYB's or Koni's. Rebuild the engine to R/A III or IV specs and have fun!!!!

modernize the drivability, make it reliable enough to drive 200 miles to a show or track event, turn around and get home.

[boater bill]

RA III if your car has AC or automatic, RAIV if you are rowing your gears.

Again this is my opinions, not the opinions of our sponsora or this channel.

[Bjorn]

1) its your car ,do with it as you please! Have fun with it, dont worry about what others think.
2) its already "modified" in the eyes of 'some', by having the Camaro Spoilers front and back! lol
(just as mine) and i even have Buick rims!
3)Go for it , 'modernize' it so you`ll enjoy driving it...by the time you sell it (may be a LOOOONG time ,if you enjoy it), there will be others that will want the same upgrades as you do!

[mpett1]

I tell you what. This is what my car has and it turns with the best of them. I would put front rear sway bars and new shocks.

FRONT - fully rebuilt using PST Deluxe kit,
PST Springs cut 1 Inch, HP Oil shocks,
Huge 1 1/8 Inch Solid Sway Bar,
3rd Generation IROC Power Steering Box
(fast ratio)
REAR - New Stock Height Multileaf Springs,
HD Shackle Kit, Large 1 Inch Solid Sway Bar,
Napa Gas Shocks, Bolt In Subframe Connectors

[ho428]

The Pro Tour fad is just that, a fad. Like Pro Street was. Nothing wrong with them but a strong "upgraded" original gets more attention from a larger audience. Plus it's just plain cooler.
I agree with Bill, upgrade the 40 year old shortcomings but leave the good stuff.
I'd stay all iron on the engine, NO Edlebrock logo's on everything. That looks tacky on a classy vintage ride, which yours is.

[69TAPOSER]

Originally Posted by ho428

The Pro Tour fad is just that, a fad. Like Pro Street was. Nothing wrong with them but a strong "upgraded" original gets more attention from a larger audience. Plus it's just plain cooler.

While I voted for "leave as is," I respectfully disagree with the above, but I guess it depends on the audience.

Certainly pro-touring is more of a "customized" look, but to compare it to Pro-street is a bit of a stretch. With a pro-street, you structurally change the car (back-half) and divert it to becoming more of strip-purposed car that does not have great road manners.

With pro-touring, you upgrade the suspension and driveline to enhance the street driving experience and structural mods (if any) are typically limited to mini-tub and subframe connectors. Connectors are pretty much hidden and you could always run skinnier tires on the rear of a mini-tub car if the look was not desireable or becomes "out of fashion." It takes a LOT of money to convert a pro-street car back to a street car, plus it is drag-strip purposed (smaller audience) hence the value hit when it comes time to sell one.

A good friend of mine is just finishing up a bone stock restoration of a '67 Bird vert that is absolutely beautiful. Yet he is concerned that my "hot rod" as he calls it will get all the attention at cruise nights. I personally do not even think about that, we all have our own modivations for what we build and as it has been pointed out, build what you like. But I don't buy a stock car getting more attention then a well done pro-touring car. Nor do I think pro-touring is a fad.

Phil

[amcmike]

Pro-touring is getting a bad reputation thanks to people who are blurring the definition. There are people now throwing on ridiculous size rims, then slamming the car to the pavement and calling it Pro-touring. Others see it and then think that is what it is about. These guys are not Pro-touring.

Pro-touring is about a well-balanced combination, heavily biased towards function in all areas with aesthetics as a secondary but still important criteria. Strong acceleration, excellent handling, superb braking, and comfortable long distance driving are the key factors.

[ho428]

Seems I read these same arguments when Pro Street came out. In hindsight Pro Street was not the evolution of Hot Rodding, merely a different segment of it. Just as Pro Touring is now.
One thing I do dissagree with is the statement of taking a lot of money to put a PS back vs PT, a mini tubbed modified rear end with a fuel cell ain't no picnic either. Albeit a little easier than PS for sure. The interiors mods are another story. Some wild modifications going on inside as well. How easy is it do install an original dash frame?

I'm not knocking PT, some of the cars are really cool, but it is a fad, like any other one to come alone. Each time a new one comes along all the followers say "This is the one that'll stick around forever" Nothing sticks around forever except originals. IMHO
But I do like modified originals as well as stock originals. Fad cars will always get plenty of lookers, they do look sharp when fresh, but a classy original always crosses more demographics.

[fyrebird68]

OMG! Don't touch that car!

[amcmike]

Originally Posted by ho428

Seems I read these same arguments when Pro Street came out. In hindsight Pro Street was not the evolution of Hot Rodding, merely a different segment of it. Just as Pro Touring is now.
One thing I do dissagree with is the statement of taking a lot of money to put a PS back vs PT, a mini tubbed modified rear end with a fuel cell ain't no picnic either. Albeit a little easier than PS for sure. The interiors mods are another story. Some wild modifications going on inside as well. How easy is it do install an original dash frame?

Again, Pro-touring does not imply mini-tubbing. There are plenty that are not mini-tubbed, but many more that are not. Original dash, yep still have it. Like I said, the lines are blurred. Thanks for lumping in the few with the many.

[68FireBird]

Personally I like the stock appearing but improved approach, in particular if it's not a perfect numbers matching type car. That car looks sharp, but if I had the money to burn, and it was mine.... I'd improve the suspension, maybe some long branch manifolds or headers, disc brake swap etc, ram air, overdrive or 5 speed.... Nothing you couldn't undo if the value of a car like that went crazy.

To me, it's your car and you need to get what you want out of it. By the way, you say 17 heads. Those are 350 heads in a 68. Is it a 400 or 350 car? That might make a differnce in how you think about this.

[Eighttime]

Love the color by the way! If it was mine, the only thing I would do to the stance would be to lower the front by about an inch by cutting out one coil. It could be already, but by the pic, it's hard to tell if the car is sitting on level ground. Nice lookin car man...

[guccieng]

thanks for all of the replies, guys. i don't plan on changing anything about the looks except the hood tach when it finally shows up. the color is 'dr. pepper' to me, done by the PO. i've already done some stuff to it: got the 17 heads to bump up compression ratio (they are 350 heads), global west s-41 front springs w/1 inch drop (they just happen to match the old sagging springs in the rear!), addco 1 inch sway bar, bilsteins all around, rebuilt th400, and 3rd gen steering box. there's just so much that's un-original that makes me think of modifying it. the console and shifter is 67 'maro, already has e-brock intake, numbers don't match anything, non-factory color, 69-up style single piston discs in front, etc. if i were to pull the trigger, here's what i'd do:

global west l-2 leafs
del-a-lum bushings all around (lca's and leafs)
solid body bushings
subframe connectors
sc&c stage 2 uca's w/tall ball joints and tall tie rod ends
aluminum tie rod sleeves
ron davis radiator w/dual spal fans
140 or 100 amp alt (for the fans)
headlamp relays
rebuilt engine for max torque
3 point morris classic concepts seat belts

the sad thing is that i've already done this entire list to my c-word! i love the way it rides and handles, but not sure if i want to spend all of the time and money to do the same thing twice. but if it works, right? so how would you value a bird built like this and not stock? thanks again for all of the compliments!

[blackbird455]

That sound like a pretty good plan. Don't even worry about if it is PT or what ever. You can post you ideas all over and get many comments for and against. Your car looks great make it your own. I started the work on my car 4 years ago and it is finally going to be back on the road this spring. I had never heard of PT until I was pretty far along in the project. Will it get a lot of attention, I think so but I am sure I will get plenty of detractors also. I built it for me and it will be a blast to drive. I know one thing for sure it will be faster ,safer, handle better and be more comfortable to drive than when it was stock. Will it look better than when it was stock I think so but that’s in the eye of the beholder. This car was a 350 2BBL 2 speed open rear end drum brake car. It was green with a black top and interior.
Now it is a 455 4 bbl some what modified. It has a 5 speed over drive, four wheel disc brakes. Subframe connectors and 3” lowering leaf springs in the rear with tubular upper and lower control arm with adjustable coil over’s in frt. The shocks are adjustable both frt and rear. 18x9 rims in rear 17x8 in the front. I Insulated the interior removed old heating AC system smoothed that part of the firewall and put in a after market heater defroster. I upgraded the head lights to halogen and upgraded the tail light to the LED system. The body was partially smoothed and I had a custom paint job but on it. Here is a picture of it as of last fall. I still need to finish some wiring and reinstall the interior. One nice thing about the PT guys is I went to a couple PT web sites and was able to buy a lot of the parts way less than new because a lot of guys buy new parts and change there mind then they end up selling them for a discount.

Originally Posted by guccieng

thanks for all of the replies, guys. i don't plan on changing anything about the looks except the hood tach when it finally shows up. the color is 'dr. pepper' to me, done by the PO. i've already done some stuff to it: got the 17 heads to bump up compression ratio (they are 350 heads), global west s-41 front springs w/1 inch drop (they just happen to match the old sagging springs in the rear!), addco 1 inch sway bar, bilsteins all around, rebuilt th400, and 3rd gen steering box. there's just so much that's un-original that makes me think of modifying it. the console and shifter is 67 'maro, already has e-brock intake, numbers don't match anything, non-factory color, 69-up style single piston discs in front, etc. if i were to pull the trigger, here's what i'd do:

global west l-2 leafs
del-a-lum bushings all around (lca's and leafs)
solid body bushings
subframe connectors
sc&c stage 2 uca's w/tall ball joints and tall tie rod ends
aluminum tie rod sleeves
ron davis radiator w/dual spal fans
140 or 100 amp alt (for the fans)
headlamp relays
rebuilt engine for max torque
3 point morris classic concepts seat belts

the sad thing is that i've already done this entire list to my c-word! i love the way it rides and handles, but not sure if i want to spend all of the time and money to do the same thing twice. but if it works, right? so how would you value a bird built like this and not stock? thanks again for all of the compliments!

[400 plus]

Originally Posted by Bjorn

1) its your car ,do with it as you please! Have fun with it, dont worry about what others think.
2) its already "modified" in the eyes of 'some', by having the Camaro Spoilers front and back! lol
(just as mine) and i even have Buick rims!
3)Go for it , 'modernize' it so you`ll enjoy driving it...by the time you sell it (may be a LOOOONG time ,if you enjoy it), there will be others that will want the same upgrades as you do!

Yep its your Please yourself. Hard the stop the ball once its rolling. Enjoy the hell out of it!

[Region Warrior]

Your car would make a nice sleeper.

455 with a 744 cam.
Stock intake with q-jet carb.
RA manifolds with full dual 2.5" exh.
3.42-3.55 gears.

Even better would be a 461 c.i.(stroked 400) with 041 cam with a massaged set of d-port heads.
Use the same RA exh man's and exh.

Get a 2nd set of rear wheels and d.o.t slicks for weekends.

Then when you want to go faster, add a 125hp n2o kit.

[mpett1]

Originally Posted by blackbird455

. I started the work on my car 4 years ago and it is finally going to be back on the road this spring. I had never heard of PT until I was pretty far along in the project. Will it get a lot of attention, I think so but I am sure I will get plenty of detractors also. I built it for me and it will be a blast to drive. I know one thing for sure it will be faster ,safer, handle better and be more comfortable to drive than when it was stock. Will it look better than when it was stock I think so but that’s in the eye of the beholder.

Looks good to me..