[AltaY88]

Hello, I'm restoring my all original 1978 Y88 Trans Am and have a couple of questions regarding the shifter bezel and the color of the Lombardy cloth originally used. My car has an aluminum machined turned finish piece that was glued to the top of the shift indicator bezel. It is exactly the same aluminum product, with the identical gold and swirl pattern of the dash insert bezel. The thing is that I have not seen this used on any other factory gold Y88 SE's in car shows, on Ebay etc. Does anyone know if this could have been done at the factory, or if it only came on another SE like the black ones up to 81'. I'm trying to have this restoration completed with as much detail to original as possible. The second question is regarding the cloth custom interior, my build sheet clearly shows a tan interior as the original color ordered on the car. When we removed all the interior from my car and took the seatbacks off of the front seats, the original hidden away material looks to have a gold hue. When I show this material to my friends half of them thinks it looks gold, the other half says camel tan, does anyone know for sure what colors they are to be? It would seem odd that gold lombardy cloth was used as I've never seen it mentioned in any car books, sites etc. Any help greatly appreciated!
Brian

[2manyT/A'S]

As I recall (and the parts book confirms this),the automatic shifter escutcheon with GOLD engine turned inset made it's FIRST T/A appearance on 1980 Y84's.
The silver one made it's debut on the 1979 10th anniversary.
Back in the day,it was VERY common to retrofit these parts.

Re: Your seat color.
What you see underneath (where the sun never shines) is CORRECT.
That color was NEW for 1978 & it DOES have a VERY RICH gold look to it under certain light. (especially late afternoon sunlight)

[68ragtop]

Brian, the camel tan, lombardi cloth was very gold in color. But it's almost always faded to more of a tan color. Pull a front seat back off, & you can really see the difference.
Glad to hear you found the build sheet you were after.

68RT

[AltaY88]

Thanks Guys, the gold shifter bezel I will sell and buy a new regular one to return my console to the way it was supposed to look back in 78'. Sounds good on the fabric, I'm going to cross my fingers the sets from Classic Industries will look factory. Hey 68RT, I did find my build sheet, it was in a hundred pieces, but the puzzle was put back together. The top left hand side was missing the data, but through other build sheets I have, I was able to piece things together. The build sheet confirms my Y88 is indeed an odd ball car, full load with everything, but no WS6 pkg. So what I end up with is the 7" snowflakes, no handling pkg. and sucky 2:56 posi rear end.

[2manyT/A'S]

If you've got 2:56 gears in the posi,they also missed the W72 (optional ) engine,so it sounds like your Y88 was ordered as a "loaded cruiser".

The build sheet will usually tell you if it was a "customer order".

A WS4/base engine Y88 is still NO SLOUCH.
With those "long legged" factory gears,on a road trip,you can run at 90 MPH,all day long!

W72 with auto trans came with 3:23's,I believe?

A change up to 3:08's would make a NICE step up,without really compromising your high speed cruising capabilities.

[68ragtop]

yah, bummer on the rear end. 3:23 would have been the ratio for the W72 auto trans cars. But, like 2manyt/a's mentioned the std 400's are still a nice engine.

I wonder if there are any W72, non-WS6 auto trans Y88 cars? I thought when the W72 was seperated from the WS6 package was about the same time that the auto trans was dropped as well for the W72? Not sure on that one.

On my earlier Y88 car, the the W72 auto, was part of the WS6 package.

68RT

[2manyT/A'S]

I wonder if there are any W72, non-WS6 auto trans Y88 cars? I thought when the W72 was seperated from the WS6 package was about the same time that the auto trans was dropped as well for the W72? Not sure on that one.



68RT[/QUOTE]

I SEEM to recall seeing one on Ebay a while back,but can't say for sure.

I'll have to check my files on this.

[David Holmberg]

Not sure on the auto's...

My best friend bought a new 78 BSE with every option (Hurst T-Tops) early car, 4-speed but no WS6 pckg.

My 78 Y88 was a W72/WS6 Auto car, also loaded.

And for the record, back when they were new and stock they both would put bus lengths on the reg motor/Auto TA's. Mine ran consistent 15.10's bone stock, and mid 14's with 74 head pipes into the resonators and a flex fan...

Another friend with a reg 78 TA ran right at a second slower, but it was still quicker than the stock 78 Z28's.

[2manyT/A'S]

I agree with you that the W72 motored T/A's were QUICKER (in the quarter) than the base 400 engine cars,BUT the base engine T/A would take your pink slip if you were running FLAT OUT!

I've driven & worked on BOTH,WAY BACK when they were NEW & the majority of the W72's EXTRA power comes from the mid 3 series gears,(which they ALL got)

We used to retrofit the early 70-74 160 mph speedo's into the gauge cluster & as I recall the base 400 with the 2.56 rear end would pull an EXTRA 25 mph (top speed) OVER the W72.

Not sure what 25 MPH equals in bus lengths,but I'm SURE it's a FEW!

I ALWAYS thought a "match race" between 2 STOCK similarly optioned 78 T/A's,one with base L78 engine & one with W72,running the SAME transmission & BOTH with 3:42 (or matching)gears would be interesting.

I don't think there was any performance rear axle ratio options at that point,so the base engine car would have needed a gear upgrade.

Loosing the catalytic converter was the biggest "performance gain" & the base engine cars still had that restrictive sideways muffler.

I'm NOT "dis-ing" the W72 engine here. I own TWO 78 stick cars,but everybody seems to turn their nose up at the BASE 400 engine,And all it really needs is tuning & a better set of gears.

I know the 78 W72 used the better earlier XX block,so that would be the one to build for BIGGER power,but for just street use,it's NOT difficult to groom an extra 40-50 HP out of the L78.

[David Holmberg]

Well sure it would top out higher with less gear...

And I worked for Charlie Sturgill Pontiac in Lexington, Ky from 1978 to 1980. I too worked on them, and drove them and raced them when they were new. I ran my new 78 Y88 in LPSA at the old Bluegrass dragstrip, and have a closet full of trophies to prove it.

I ran many "plain" TA's from a roll and I was so far ahead by 120 that I couldn't see 'em.
And yes the W72's topped out too soon, as I found out racing (and beating) a 69 GTO on Nicholasville rd. I looked in the mirror to see how far back the GTO was and there was a 73 Dodge police car running me down like I was standing still. Thank god he got the GTO and I went into the next county...
Using your theory the 76 TA with the 2.41 gears would be faster than all. 100 mph @ 3K rpms, that car would cruise.

BTW, the W72 got a better converter, better exhaust, better cam and better gearing.

I even pissed off a 78 L-82 Vette owner one night, we ran 5 times and I still put a car on him every time... Really pissed him off.

[2manyT/A'S]

I used to spank L-82 Fiber-cans ALL THE TIME,as well, with my "stock" 78 W72 4 speed.
Well,almost stock (true duals,with a carb & HEI rework),but if you got past a 69 GTO with your 78 W72,the GTO WASN't running on ALL 8 or the 400 had been changed out for a chevvy.
Nearly stock Pontiac 400 smog motors are NO MATCH for a high compression 400.

[David Holmberg]

Really? Old car mag test show the GTO's ran mid to lower 14's stock. My car was probably running 14.50's by then...

They have 'em in books, read one.

I also use to beat a 70 RAIII TA too, but I guess that can't happen either. In fact that TA got my stock W72 motor before it was sold to Darren Deaton. When my car was about 8 months old I had a 455, 62 heads, GK cam, stock 72 intake, Q-jet, headers and duals in it.

Maybe we should take this to the best stories section, and stop jacking this thread.

Here is a pic from back then, at Bluegrass Dragstrip...

[AltaY88]

Well I got my PHS documents today and yep my car never got the W72 engine either, I guess this all really doesn't matter as the original engine is long gone (and transmission) What I've got now is an unknown year 455 and turbo 400 all done up. My car is all original in and out except for the powertrain, yet I'm still going through with the full restoration. Once I decipher the numbers on the 455 I'll know what I got. I will say that having the 2:56 rear gears might actually grow on me from what I read from all you guys (thanks). It's funny that with that kind of gears I can still peel the tires off on the car if I wanted too. The person before me did a wonderfull job on that engine with balancing, blueprinting etc. I have found that it only likes the highest octane gas available.

[68ragtop]

Brain, I think if I was building an engine for a T/A & it wasn't a number match thing, The 455 is what I would build, That is, if I could find one. Easy to make big power with one of those, with the right parts. Not too surprising that your engine rips the tires at any factory gear ratio.

the best part is, it fits & looks factory anyway.

68RT

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

Really? Old car mag test show the GTO's ran mid to lower 14's stock. My car was probably running 14.50's by then...

They have 'em in books, read one.

I also use to beat a 70 RAIII TA too, but I guess that can't happen either. In fact that TA got my stock W72 motor before it was sold to Darren Deaton. When my car was about 8 months old I had a 455, 62 heads, GK cam, stock 72 intake, Q-jet, headers and duals in it.

Maybe we should take this to the best stories section, and stop jacking this thread.

Here is a pic from back then, at Bluegrass Dragstrip...

You're RIGHT,these guys are likely tired of us "old FARTS" benchracing our 78 stick cars (from 25 years ago).


However,I DO read books and magazines. That's where I learned that from 67-69 they made GTO's with 2 bbl. carbs,& thats the ONLY ONE you would ever get past with a close to stock 78 Trans am.

A 70 T/A would kick your BUTT to all the way to SUNDAY & back AGAIN! (if it was runnin' RIGHT)

You likely had the "bigger STOVE" in your 78 when those races went down!

I STILL have MY "nearly stock" 78 T/A.

If you have yours still,maybe we can have a REAL race sometime?

[68ragtop]

In 1984ish a friend of mine had a 73 4 speed 455 SD Trans am. I went for many rides in that car. Even though it was not the high compression model, that was a smoken fast car. I am quite certain neither of my W72'd cars would have ever kept up with it.

He then took the car all apart to repaint it. It never went back together & it sold it for $1600 in pieces in 1987 I still tease him about that huge mistake. Good lord what those cars are worth now.

[AltaY88]

That's why I bought the car was for that motor and the way everything looks factory. As long as the car is fast, fun and easy on the eyes, it's all good! The engine in my car is supposed to be from a 73' Pontiac also, but I'm not getting my hopes hope it's anything rare like from a Super Duty. It's probably a Bonneville engine nicely done. By the way, it's Brian

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by AltaY88

By the way, it's Brian

Sorry, I am terrible with accidentaly transposing letters when I tpye, I mean type.

[AltaY88]

That's o.k, I get that spelling lots.

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

I STILL have MY "nearly stock" 78 T/A.

If you have yours still,maybe we can have a REAL race sometime?

Ya, my 77 TA is "Nearly" stock, I'd love to see how they stack up today...

And No, all it had were the 74 head pipes, flex fan, shaker opened and LR-60-15 radails... The 78-79 W72 cars were very under rated, especially when the intake and exhaust were opened up...

Here is a little more reading for you...
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/angryclown/CanAmW72.html