[loggerhead]

I have a 1976 Trans Am with "Bone Stock" suspension. It wanders excessively in moderate to tight curves on the street. Is this normal for this type of car? Would it
be this way when it was Brand New? (My car is very low miles) Would I solve this problem with new stock bushings and such, or do I need to totally upgrade my suspension front and rear? Tires are G/Y Eagle GT II 225/70-15 on stock Ralley II's.
I don't know if it's possible, but I would like this thing to handle like it was on rails!
My brother had an Audi S-4 that was seemingly 100 times tighter than my T/A.
For that matter, My wife's 1994 Honda Accord, and to a lesser degree, her 1996 Honda Odysey are much tighter.


Thanks,

David

[Hawk397]

No, that's not the way it should handle. It could be "slack" in just about anything - sway-bar bushings, control arm bushings, tie-rods etc. It would be worth it to go through an inspection of everything and look for deflection, rotting, missing pieces, etc. Oh yea, alignment could be out of spec - expected if you have worn components.

It really depends on what you want to do with your car - and personal option - but here are some ideas.

My recipe for handling would include: 1-subframe connectors, 2-Edelbrock IAS shocks all the way around, 3-Poly bushings all the way around, including body. That's the way my 74 is setup and it handles great.

Now, one other "enhancement". Coil-over shocks on the front and new Hotskis rear springs. I've got my 71 setup this way and it handles as well as a stock 4th gen trans-am.

Good Luck,
Mark

[amcmike]

Probably a combination of worn suspension components and poor alignment. Check everything and most likely you will find it's time to replace.

If it were me I would take the opportunity to upgrade with this setup (with greasable race bushings): http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm#streetcomp2. Align it per their recommendation.

Then a set of bilsteins all around and replace the rebuild the rest of the suspension (antirollbar bushings, end links, etc.)

Also, check out your subframe to body bushings as those have probably never been replaced. If those are shot use www.globalwest.net, www.detroitspeed.com, or www.speedtech-performance.com for interlocking solid body bushings. And add subframe connectors.

For the rear, talk to Eaton or Hotchkis.

Finally if your rims are at least 7" wide, find a good set of 255/60R15s tires.

This combination should not only handle like a late model performance car, but improve the ride at the same time.

[1980 TA]

I would agree with the Bilsteins over the Edelbrocks for the best handling and a good ride. I've used both and the Bilsteins had a tighter feel.

If you are going to go with Bilsteins, I would say the best would be the ones from Hotchkiss matched to their springs. They have done the research and you will have a nicely balanced/MATCHED setup.

SC&C are great people to deal with as I used them for my Varishocks.

I have the speedtech solid bushings and am very pleased with them.

I actually hate poly bushings and would recommend new rubber or solid bushings. I like rubber in the lower front a arms with solids in the uppers. I also like rubber in the front leaf spring and can live with poly in the rear leaf spring spots, but they will squeak at some point.

I've gone a custom route with my suspension and had to go with double adjustable shocks to get it dialed in. There is no comparison to a suspension with perfectly matched springs and shocks. Now that I have found the sweet spot, there is no wandering and a great ride. It is as tight as any new car I have driven with a heavy, but very nice steering feel. Until the shocks were matched to the springs, the car would wander, be dead off center, ride rough, etc until the sweet spot was found. This is why I think the Hotchkiss setup is probably the best out of the box.

[GT182]

Check the panhard rod in the rear on leftside over the rear axle. If that's broke the car will wander on you.

[pro-tour79]

don't use poly in anything but the sway bars, solid body bushings, frame connectors, Belsteins, konis or Pro-shock adjustable shocks, new rubber control arm bushings or solids (steel or del-a-lums).

[pro-tour79]

GT182, 2nd gens don't have panhard bars

[GT182]

Ok, my goof P-T79, sorry.

But there is a rod that connects the rear axle to the body above the axle. Maybe it's not called a panhard rod but that rod is there or should be. It attaches to the upper left side of the underbody(standing at the rear of the car) to the leftside of the axle close to the pumpkin. If it's not there or is broken the car will do exactly as David's car is doing. I do know this as that rod broke on my 79 Formula. My 'Bird did the exact same thing and scared the living crap out of me a couple of times before I got it on a hoist and found what was wrong. We were lucky and mig welded it together until I got a replacement.

That could be, or not be, the problem, but is worth checking out for safety sake.

[Old Goat Racer]

SUB FRAME BUSHINGS! Check them for tightness, if their loose, replace them. Put on safety glasses in case of falling rust.

[myckee]

Originally Posted by GT182

Ok, my goof P-T79, sorry.

But there is a rod that connects the rear axle to the body above the axle. Maybe it's not called a panhard rod but that rod is there or should be. It attaches to the upper left side of the underbody(standing at the rear of the car) to the leftside of the axle close to the pumpkin. If it's not there or is broken the car will do exactly as David's car is doing. I do know this as that rod broke on my 79 Formula. My 'Bird did the exact same thing and scared the living crap out of me a couple of times before I got it on a hoist and found what was wrong. We were lucky and mig welded it together until I got a replacement.

That could be, or not be, the problem, but is worth checking out for safety sake.

The only 'rod' on the rear of a second gen is possibly the rear sway bar. Otherwise there are none. The axel is attached to the leaf springs which attach to the chassis. No rods.

[pro-tour79]

the rear sway bar hangers is the only thing that would come from the body/chassis and go to the rear end housing via the sway bar many of those break because some were actualy spot welded together, especialy when springs get week with age and if poly sway bar bushings are installed to "restore handling" and modern tires put a lot more stress on the sway bar hangers and they break.

[GT182]

Sorry but it wasn't the swaybar. I might also add that this was the W6 4wheel disc setup.

Doesn't matter if no 2nd gens were without them or not, this one had that bar from axle to the body and was factory installed. I know as I stood there while it was mig welded, and looked for a replacement until my ex blew the engine the following week.

I knew that car like the back of my hand and wish I had it today. Someone out there has the complete interior from it and a set of $1200 Recaro buckets... gratis the A**H*** that stole it all.

[pro-tour79]

not to be an a$$ but you stood there AT THE FACTORY while it was mig welded on?! hhmmm.

[GT182]

If you'd have read my reply and not jumped to your AH conclusion, it was installed at the factory on the axle. When it Broke I Was standing there at the shop and watched it being welded.

It seems you don't know all you think you do on 2nd gen Firebirds. Find an original '79 with an original 4 wheel disc rearend and you see that rod is attached from the axle to body. Argue all you want but I know what was on the car.

[Bigger is Better]

GT182,

Second Gens didnt come with a panhard at all from the factory. Not that it matters but I have an 80 4wheel disk car (SE) and it didnt come with it. In fact for autocrossing I made a panhard bar setup for it (ie. designed from scratch and had it built/welded). It is possible that you had a modified car?

Loggerhead, you might want to check your aligment and front end condition before you spend a lot of money. Also dont expect your car to ever get 100% to that Audi

[johnsma22]

Hey pro-tour, how come no poly on anything but the sway bars?

[pro-tour79]

poly binds especialy in the front leaf spring eye imagine the arc that one rear wheel has to take as it goes over a bump or a steep driveway, now the leaf spring is flat but in order to follow the arc the leaf spring has to follow the angle that the solid rear axle makes in essence the rear wheel will camber in relation to the chassis, the forward half of the leaf spring in fact acts as a lower control arm and the bushing is the pivot point and if a solid bushing is installed in the front eye of the leaf this cambering will not happen and cause the spring to try and twist adding to the spring rate in an inconsistent way.
Poly bushings should be considered as solid bushings.
As for front control arm bushings being replaced with poly bushings the main problem there is the inability to grease them on a regular bassis as should solid bushings.

NOW gt182 last post back to you , this forum is read by thousands and the info you put out should be correct, BTW I own a 79 WS6 Formula 4 speed (one of 346 made)
Obviously you don't know the car like the back of your hand
I believe you would know that a 79 4 wheel disc Firebird is reffered to as a WS6 equiped car because the rear end could have been transplanted!
So now do some reaserch before trying to prove someone else to be posting missinformation, thank you have a good day

[GT182]

Think what you want... it was a WS6 with the original 4wheel disc rear... not a swap. Excuse me if I forgot the S. It only took from Oct of 78 when ordered to May or 79 to get it. It sat in Van Nuys all that time waiting for the rear end assbly. BTW.. I still have the window sticker from the day I picked it up. Now... tell me they weren't made in Van Nuys, CA.

So with that, I done with this discussion. You know so much more than anyone else pro-tour79. Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do. There might just be someone out there that can backup what I said, but I don't much care anymore. I'm outa here. Enjoy yourself.

[johnsma22]

GT182, just to give you the benefit of the doubt I spent quite a bit of time today researching every resource I have with regard to 2nd gen f-bodies. Nowhere could I find any reference to any kind of bar that connected the differential to the chassis. I'm not calling you a liar by any means, I'm just saying that I could find nothing. My uncle was an engineer for GM back in the 70's. He is now retired and lives in Vegas. I emailed him today about this and asked him if he had ever heard of such a thing. I didn't think that I would hear from him so soon, but he emailed me back about an hour ago and stated emphatically that to the best of his knowledge there was no such animal!

Now having said that, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has developed a reputation around here for dispensing good and helpful information to this community. Not to mention opened a business dedicated to improving the performance of suspension systems for 2nd gen f-bodies. All you have done is call a respected member of this community an a$$hole, publicly questioned his expertise, and portrayed yourself as an arrogant, condescending person. All this with a join date of Aug '07 and 59 posts. I'd say your off to a bad start if your desire was to become a valuable member of this community. I hope I'm wrong and you really are a good guy. I'm sure if we met I'd buy you a beer!

[David Holmberg]

Well I worked at a Pontiac Dealership in the late 70's and I've owned MANY 2nd gen birds and have never seen anything like that from the factory.

Sway bars and leaf springs are the only things I've seen attached to the rear ends from the factory. Now it could have been added by the dealer, or a shop after purchase, something like a traction bar.

Stranger things have happened, but this would be a new one to me.