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Wick · 03-23-2006, 04:58 PM

What do you guys think of these flow #'s. I bought these ported 7K3's with matching stock intake, exhaust manifolds and dual snorkle air cleaner a few years ago. The valves are stock so I think I can pick up some more flow with aftermarkets.

intake ----------ex
100. ---99 ------73
200. ---151.5 ---120.5
300. ---202.5 ---161.7
400. ---232.5 ---183.9
500. ---246 -----198.1
600. ---249 -----209.2
700. ---258 -----217.1

I am wanting to build a street 474 with a hyd roller. Any thoughts?
Thanks

goatasaurus rex · 03-23-2006, 06:44 PM

depends on you final goal. should make 500 hp no problem. these #'s would support a fairly aggressive 406 better than a fairly aggressive 455

Lloyd-TX · 06:51 PM

Great flow numbers, Chris.

Just as a reference, the 7F6 heads on the 467 in my blue Formula flowed 276I & 176E @ .550" lift @ 28".

With a VERY small solid flat camshaft, it made 530 CTQ @ 3000 and 430 CHP @ 5100. Running through OEM 2.25" outlet SD manifolds, a 455HO intake and a SD Q-jet. 9.98:1 calculated CR.

Methinks they'll do fairly well on your deal.

Skip Fix · 03-23-2006, 06:58 PM

Chris, since they have flat valves compared to RAIV tulips probably not much flow increase, maybe a little with the necked down stem most aftermarket valves have. I'd think more of new valves for longer valves to get a taller valve spring installed height for coil bind and retainer interference.
Maybe milling for a better CR also.

1.65s on the intake and maybe a single pattern if you look at the E/I ratio over 80%.

Wick · 03-23-2006, 07:27 PM

Lloyd, if I can get my car to run 12's like yours, I be happy.

Skip, I think we will do just a little bit of work on the intake side to get the numbers up a little, maybe 10 to 20 cfm but 20 may be stretching. And I don't know if I can bring myself to run a single pattern but I might.

I thought I would use E heads but it looks like these will work for me better. Damn, I just bought a set of Dougs round port headers so I may be selling them.

OINK 1 · 03-24-2006, 11:12 AM

Flow#'s ok, But there are no bolt holes for headers on the outer ports.

Pontiac Gregg

J.C.you · 03-24-2006, 11:34 AM

yes, on the single pattern cam. at least a .600+ lift cam to take advantage of the flow, if the heads flow past .600. do you know who did the heads?

Wick · 03-24-2006, 12:08 PM

J.C. These heads were done about 15 years ago by someone in Austin but have never been run. I just called the guy I bought the heads from and he will try and find the guy who did them or at least get a name if you are interested. I was a little surprised they kept flowing that high.

OINK 1 · 03-25-2006, 11:32 AM

NO WAY single pattern cam, that guy has no idea what he's talking about !!
The intake to exh. flow #'s are to far off !!

Pontiac Gregg

slowbird · 03-25-2006, 11:52 AM

80% is to far off? I agree with Skip and JC on the cam. A single pattern cam or one the only has a couple more (2 to 3) degrees of exhaust duration would work good with these heads.

Skip Fix · 03-25-2006, 12:39 PM

When I spoke with Harold from UD he used the guidelines less than 75% 8 degree @ 0.050 split, 75-80% 4 degree split, 80% or above single pattern. Even the old HO book spoke about using a single pattern on ported D port heads as the exhaust picks up easily with porting. So I don't think I'm way off. .3 to .7 are from 78-84%,average around 80%.

My RAIV heads that are 85% E/I picked up 0.2 seconds/2mph with MORE intake duration than exhaust over even a 4 degree "normal" split cam and every 8 degree split cam we had in the motor.Look at the many race cams that have more intake lift than exhaust lift.

My current E heads do have a "regular split" due to the ratio, but still gained HP with more lift(higher ratios) on the intake.

With modern free flowing exhaust and no power adder(they definitely need more time to get it out) we don't always need the extra help the old Pontiacs did 40 years ago.

speedshopmike · 03-25-2006, 01:03 PM

oink1, you're flat wrong.
80% is exactly whre you wanna see s ingle pattern cam.
other issues to consider are primarily the exhaust system, and how well it flows/maintains velocity.
while highly debatable, and i'm not gonna get into one over it, single pattern cams will often make better power then a dual pattern in teh right circumstance - and those numbers qualify.

those flow #'s are actually excellent for a d port head, and will easily support 500hp plus.

Skip Fix · 03-26-2006, 01:14 PM

Bob Davis is running low 10s in his 64 Tempest with E heads and a single pattern. I think Steve C has tried one in his pump gas motor also.

WARPed · 03-26-2006, 05:42 PM

I have always run dual pattern cams in all of my motors (E Heads) with great success. Single pattern cams may have their place but I will never run one in my Pontiacs.

speedshopmike · 03-26-2006, 07:21 PM

i feel saying never is not a good thing, but whatever floats your boat.
very little in life is an absolute.
you got yer death, and yer taxes...
nothing in cars is.
no guns to anyone's head here.
most old pontiac guys i know won't run single patterns "because they're chevy cams".
fwiw, i've also only and always run dual pattern cams in my poncho motors.
if i had the flow #'s posted above, i'd run a single pattern cam.
i've never had 80%/better I/E flow ratios, so they didn't apply in my personal cases.
my syclone cam, for example, has 12 degrees more intake then exhuast duration.
the heads' #'s dictated the cam choice.
like any other motor, pontiac or honda or whatever, he who experiments and uses tools available to make stuff work best will win the day.
standing one's ground "just because" isn't gonna win engine masters.

Skip Fix · 03-26-2006, 07:50 PM

After trying numerous "regular split" cams in my RAIV motor that all ran to the .01 the same I tried the "reverse split" and the motor liked it. You never know til you do a back to back testing.

Wick · 03-27-2006, 10:42 AM

I know the 7K3's don't have the end bolt holes but someone makes a bracket to fix that, don't remember who though.

There are people on this board that know much more than me about flows and what cams to run with the flow #'s. Me personally, I have never run a straight pattern cam but all of my motors have been geared toward daily drivers. As I posted earlier, we will do a little more work on the intake and change the valves plus a better valve job and hopefully get the intake side to flow a little better.

I wanted to know what you guys thought about these heads on a 474 and a hyd roller as I have never flowed a set of heads and didn't quite know where I stood as far as the #'s went. Thanks for the info.

Larry Navarro · 03-27-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wick

I wanted to know what you guys thought about these heads on a 474 and a hyd roller as I have never flowed a set of heads and didn't quite know where I stood as far as the #'s went. Thanks for the info.

Junk, man junk!...door stops!...buy a set of E-heads you cheap bee-itch!!!

Wick · 03-27-2006, 12:57 PM

Or maybe some wheel chocks for your POS TA's? lol

I tried to sell these on Ebay a few months back for $300 BIN but nobody wanted them. I guess I'm stuck with them now after flowing them.

speedshopmike · 03-27-2006, 01:04 PM

NOT junk.
not as good as e heads, certainly, but not junk by any means.
it might be paul spotts selling the header bolt brackets; i cant recall.
fyi, the style of cam (roller or flat) isn't an issue here, just optimizing what you have with intelligent choice on specs is.
you're not going to get much more intake flow out of them...don't spend a fortune trying.

i ran 7k3's on a 463 years back, with a 234/244 crane juice flat cam, and the car FLEW considering the minimal investment - 73 ta, 4 spd, 3.42's, torker, 800 dp spreadbore holley.
it ran low/mid 12's all day long on rattyass dunop gt qualifiers, and pulled mean hard till 5500.
and the headers leaked constantly from 5 minutes after i'd change gaskets.
welding bolts to the heads to act as studs lasted 30 minutes or so.
get the adapters...

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