[Z Code 400]

Just wanted to share this with the forum at large. I know it sounds silly and I am not a ploymer chemist, but I would like your input on the topic.

I got off work this morning at 3:00am PST and started the 54 mile drive home to Visalia in my Mercedes-Benz Turbo Diesel. Along the way I discovered I was very, very low on fuel. I quickly calculated my fuel capacity/consumption based on miles driven since last fill-up and concluded I was 12 miles short of the fuel required to reach my destination.

This matter was further complicated by there being no diesel available along my route at this time of the day.

I stopped at a local 24 hour meat market in a small, farm labor community. I purchased a gallon of fresh vegetable oil to complete the trip. I drove the car to within 12 miles of my destination and added the single gallon of vegetable oil.

By my calculations, I had less than 1 gallon of fuel remaining.

Based on past experience in the military, I knew that diesel engines are like vultures in that they will run on virtually any flammable substance. Home Heating Oil, Weed Oil, Jet 'A', and Cleaning Solvents will all serve as an acceptable fuel source.

What I was not prepared for was the tremendous increase in power that I experienced.

Keep in mind that I drive this car 108 miles a day, each and every day of the week, so small changes are readily apparent and the increase in performance was unbelievable.

Obviously, the cetane rating of vegetable oil is somewhat higher than diesel fuel, but this made me think about the possibility of using it to retard combustion in a gasoline engine.

Even with 1 gallon of vegetable oil to 17.5 gallons of diesel fuel, the performance increase is apparent. Additionally, the noise of the combustion process is markedly quieter than it is when burning #2 diesel fuel.

My grandfather was in the U.S. Army Air Force during WWII and he spoke about how they would augument fuel in fighter aircraft with a light hydraulic oil to improve the heat energy of the fuel, lubricate the upper cylinder and improve the octane rating. Pilots claimed you could feel the difference in performance when the light oil was added to the fuel supply.

In a high performance gasoline engine application, what benefit could adding a small percentage of light oil have on performance???

Obviously, it would require dynometer testing to arrive at an acceptable percentage, but I would like to conduct some experiments on this.

I think I will start by adding some oil to my lawnmower's fuel supply and experiment to see what performance increase (if any) can be realized while bogging it down in heavy grass.

An old top fuel racer/friend of mine, Tim Beebe (of Beebe/Mulligan fame) told me how they used to supplement the fuel in their early gasoline Hemi's with Tolulene and Benzene to increase the heat energy of the fuel and improve its anti-knock ratings.

Anyone with a chemistry background care to offer some input on this topic???

Thanks for your time...Robert

[cwolf]

Sounds interesting will you be posting your results with gasoline too?

[Bad Karma]

Touline is very hazardous and many of the old timers have blamed thier cancer on using touline to clean parts and such. I know I am interested in the Gas results but even in diesel its Cool experiement!

[engineer]

toluene is in today's gasoline so that is why gasoline is a cancer-causing agent, even if not marked as such. IT IS. So more toluene is not any worse than before. Vegetable oil in diesel engines is not new and it works on a running engine. not good to use to start one with though. for use in gasoline, it is not a good idea. Cetane is not octane and the two do not interchange. If you want to run something in your gasoline engine, use marvel mystery oil, etc. instead.

[jcruz]

This reminds me of the guy who mixed windshield washer fluid with his gas because someone told him it would run cleaner so he could pass emissions. Maybe the blown motor was a coincidence...

John

[70 bird]

Far as I know if you mix oil in gas on a 4 stroke engine you will end up with detination,just like when it leaks past your rings or valve seals.

[myckee]

Maybe some JB Weld would help the cetane and octane bond...

[zippy]

Originally Posted by myckee

Maybe some JB Weld would help the cetane and octane bond...

ROFL smrta$$

[Z Code 400]

Originally Posted by 70 bird

Far as I know if you mix oil in gas on a 4 stroke engine you will end up with detination,just like when it leaks past your rings or valve seals.

Again, it depends on the concentration. Personally, we have used MMO in the fuel for many years. Not enough to cause exhaust smoke, but enough to turn the fuel red in gasoline engines.

Just thought the topic would be interesting...Robert

P.S. Yes...my 300 Turbo Diesel starts just fine on 100% Canola Oil at 70°F

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by zippy

ROFL smrta$$

That isn't nice! You never know until you try JB weld in your gas now will you! Sceptic! You try it first BTW and let me know.

Seriously, I would go with a methanol water injection system on a gas rig before I played with any of that other stuff. It works and it's easy to do.

[Schurkey]

Ever smelled the exhaust of a Diesel that's burning "Bio-Diesel" fuel (fuel made from sunflower/corn/canola oil?

Gives a new meaning to calling a diesel a "popcorn popper".

I'll believe there's more BTUs in vegetable oil than gasoline--but not that it improves the octane rating, at least not until I see some scientific proof.

[Schoust]

Z code,I have been told that if you use vegitable oil straght up the engine will not start,but if you start with diesel and then switch over it will stay running??I am interested in the concept because here in Ct. we are taxed to death on gas and I'm thinking about buying a diesel for some extra milage,I have access to all the used cooking oil I need.If anyone has any info on this subject I would be very interested...Thanks

[Z Code 400]

Schoust: I think my answer would be too lengthy in this forum. What I can tell you is compression is a huge factor in whether or not a diesel will start on vegetable oil. It doesn't work wel in a worn out engine.

I belong to a Mercedes-Benz Forum that has a tremendous resource on altrenative diesel fuels. I would suggest visiting www.mercedesshop.com and viewing the forum titled 'Diesel Discussion.'

Lots of good information on that topic.

Feel free to e-mail me at: Zcode400@sbcglobal.net

[WARPed]

Check out this site http://biodiesel.org/

[Formulabruce]

I remember my grandfather useing "mothballs" in his corvair corsa turbo gas tank, the car flew when he did this, Unsure the chemistry though.
Toulene make your car run very hot, and with no lead in the fuel, and most of todays cars running much hotter, just something to think about....

[TinInjun]

Originally Posted by Z Code 400

My grandfather was in the U.S. Army Air Force during WWII and he spoke about how they would augument fuel in fighter aircraft with a light hydraulic oil to improve the heat energy of the fuel, lubricate the upper cylinder and improve the octane rating. Pilots claimed you could feel the difference in performance when the light oil was added to the fuel supply.

In a high performance gasoline engine application, what benefit could adding a small percentage of light oil have on performance???

First off the first part of this is total urban legend. Adding oil to gain octane, don't you think the gas companies would do this if it were true. Lots cheaper to refine oil than gas and all the other adittives. Also they don't do this on the highest performance aviation piston aviation engines on the planet, that is the unlimited class at Reno. Second part of this, why worry about valve guide seals if this were the case. Oil in the mixture cases detonation, not what you want.
Diesel engines rely on detonation, thats how they work. Octane is not an issue with them.
Diesel fuel is a totally different beast than gasoline. Its an apples and oranges comparison

[jim69bird]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

I remember my grandfather useing "mothballs" in his corvair corsa turbo gas tank, the car flew when he did this, Unsure the chemistry though.
Toulene make your car run very hot, and with no lead in the fuel, and most of todays cars running much hotter, just something to think about....

My dad told me about this...

a piece of info....found on a gasoline faq

The legend of mothballs as an octane enhancer arose well before WWII when
naphthalene was used as the active ingredient. Today, the majority of
mothballs use para-dichlorobenzene in place of naphthalene, so choose
carefully if you wish to experiment :-). There have been some concerns about
the toxicity of para-dichlorobenzene, and naphthalene mothballs have again
become popular. In the 1920s, typical gasoline octane ratings were 40-60
[11], and during the 1930s and 40s, the ratings increased by approximately 20
units as alkyl leads and improved refining processes became widespread [12].

Naphthalene has a blending motor octane number of 90 [52], so the addition of
a significant amount of mothballs could increase the octane, and they were
soluble in gasoline. The amount usually required to appreciably increase the
octane also had some adverse effects. The most obvious was due to the high
melting point ( 80C ), when the fuel evaporated the naphthalene would
precipitate out, blocking jets and filters. With modern gasolines,
naphthalene is more likely to reduce the octane rating, and the amount
required for low octane fuels will also create operational and emissions
problems.

[Schurkey]

Heard of Phillips 66? 66 was the octane rating they were bragging up at the time the company was named. I think the same is true of Union 76.

We've come a long way since then.

[cwolf]

How would rubbing alcohol (100%) work? I have heard this from friends well over 20 years ago saying they used it to boost octane in the early 70's

[fiedlerh]

What year is your Turbo Diesel? My brother just bought an '85 wagon.