[head #96]

Okay there's just not enough info in the archive's in CP or PY on this. I'm freshing my motor this winter with new bearing's and rings. Heads will be gone though with with new springs(995) locks and retainers(don't know about new vavles yet). I'm going to do lite clean up to remove bumps, warts, casting flash, etc. The heads will not be flowed as the machineshop I trust does not have one, and I don't feel it necessary for street/strip car.
So here's my present combo 67 Firebird,462 stock bottom end with 96 dport heads, forged Trws, Isky 234 at 50 485lift 108lobesep singlepatern, toker2, 2900 Art Carr stall th350, 3.55 Auburn unit,28" tall tire, car runs 12.5 at 108mph now. Would like to see 11s this summer. I've been considering a solidlift cam. I do drive on the street to car shows and other functions, sometimes as much as 100mi one way. I like the idea of set um and forget um. But have heard a solid lift cam puts out like 35 more hp thats quite a bit of hp. Is a solid lift cam going to endure the stresses of street use, like substained heat and 3000 rpm on interstate? Cams I've been looking at are UD 247/251 @ 50 525/530lift solid...UD 239/247 @ 50 507/530lift hyd...Comps XE284 240/246 @ 50 507/510..hyd all cams are flat tappet. Jim Butler told me the solid would put me in mid 11s [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]. I just don't want to tell my buds "I can't go to a carshow cause my valvetrain needs to be adjusted again" I race my car car about 6 times a year 30 runs or so. I've been doing this about 8 yrs with no problems with the motor ever and don't want to start now. So lets here from some of you solid cam owners, and hyd owners that run 11s on the street? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks Joel

[This message was edited by head #96 on November 30, 2002 at 07:20 PM.]

[head #96]

Okay there's just not enough info in the archive's in CP or PY on this. I'm freshing my motor this winter with new bearing's and rings. Heads will be gone though with with new springs(995) locks and retainers(don't know about new vavles yet). I'm going to do lite clean up to remove bumps, warts, casting flash, etc. The heads will not be flowed as the machineshop I trust does not have one, and I don't feel it necessary for street/strip car.
So here's my present combo 67 Firebird,462 stock bottom end with 96 dport heads, forged Trws, Isky 234 at 50 485lift 108lobesep singlepatern, toker2, 2900 Art Carr stall th350, 3.55 Auburn unit,28" tall tire, car runs 12.5 at 108mph now. Would like to see 11s this summer. I've been considering a solidlift cam. I do drive on the street to car shows and other functions, sometimes as much as 100mi one way. I like the idea of set um and forget um. But have heard a solid lift cam puts out like 35 more hp thats quite a bit of hp. Is a solid lift cam going to endure the stresses of street use, like substained heat and 3000 rpm on interstate? Cams I've been looking at are UD 247/251 @ 50 525/530lift solid...UD 239/247 @ 50 507/530lift hyd...Comps XE284 240/246 @ 50 507/510..hyd all cams are flat tappet. Jim Butler told me the solid would put me in mid 11s [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]. I just don't want to tell my buds "I can't go to a carshow cause my valvetrain needs to be adjusted again" I race my car car about 6 times a year 30 runs or so. I've been doing this about 8 yrs with no problems with the motor ever and don't want to start now. So lets here from some of you solid cam owners, and hyd owners that run 11s on the street? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks Joel

[This message was edited by head #96 on November 30, 2002 at 07:20 PM.]

[RH152]

my 67 firebird weighs #3500 lbs has gone a best of 10.94 at 121 consistent low 11,s witha ultra dyne 231 239 at .050 hyd cam. car is only raced but this combo could be street driven.30 over 455 stock rods trw pistons stock #96 rd ports torker 1 intake 750 holley hp carb 2 inch primary 3.5 coll. into a dr gas x into dynomax bullet mufflers 11x29 hoosier slicks 4.10 gear tight 9 inch select converter turbo 400 trans. i shift it at 5200 tried shifting higher didnt go any faster .

pure pontiacpowerd 86 grand am
455 eheads hyd. cam 9.24 at 145

[head #96]

Thanks for your response RH152 thats one flying bird you have there! It's also the same cam Lee Atkinson runs in his 11 sec bird. Are you running 1.65 rockers mine are the 1.52s roller tips by Comp. If you are running 1.65s what do you think about the 239/247 Ultradyne hyd for me? Since I'm running 1.52 that should give me about the same lift and duration as you. Not worried about how it idles I do have manual brakes, and I love that aggresive rumpty rump idle anyways [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]. Just looking for combo's that are proven as yours is. Thanks Joel

About anyone else? Anyone running a solid on the street? How about more hyd cams running 11s they seem to be able to do it, and maintenance free at the same time. Do I have to post this in the Lobby to get some responses? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

[This message was edited by head #96 on November 30, 2002 at 11:21 PM.]

[WDCreech]

Head#96,
My dad bought a straight 8 Buick late in 1954. I remember him adjusting the valves before we went on a trip at Christmas time, that year. The only other time that I can remember them being adjusted, I did it in about 1960. He gave that car away in 1964, with 123,000 miles, and it still ran good. Personally, unless a lot of miles are put on a car, I would put a flat tappet solid cam in it for the extra power!


Bill

[UDHarold]

As far as the 247/251 cam on the street, it goes over 100,000 miles with normal care. Assuming you're not twisting your engine 7000+ all the time, you can check the lash every 4 to 6 months, less often if there's no real changes after the first couple of checks. I have people take these cams on 200 mile drives all the time, if you like driving that distance with the HP they make.
Ji's dyno reads higher than the one I was testing on in the 80s, but a 243/251 on 110 LSA in a 355 SBC made 430 BHP at 6200, and I let my niece drive it for several years.

UDHarold

[UDHarold]

RH152,

What type of fuel pump, etc, do you have? All my cams, starting with the 231/239, are sensitive to fuel volume. You need at least a high-volume NASCAR-type mech pump and 1.2" #8 gas line from the tank to the carb. If you are using the Holly Blue pump, I recommend 2 of them, side-by-side, into a Y-Block and the 1/2" line, up to another Y-Block close to the carb, and 2 regulators, one for each float bowl.
This system has worked for me for 22 years, and will feed 450 to 800 HP engines. I do not believe that one Holly Blue will work---It never has for 22 years with my cams....

UDHarold

[Tim Corcoran]

As was previously reported with the Buick straight 8 engine, over the years many production passenger cars came from the factory with solid lifter cams, including the very sucessful air cooled Volkswagon engine, Chevy and Ford 6 cylinder and V-8 engines, etc. There is no reason to believe that a hydraulic lifter engine will go more miles than a solid lifer cam engine. I rune a solid flat tappet cam in my 455 powered 65 LeMans. This is a strip only bracket car now but it used to be a street/strip car and I never adjusted the valves more than once a year and they were never more than .001/.002 from where I set them which is not enough to bother with. I now adjust them once a race season. Hydraulic lifters will normally run a bit quieter than solid lifters because of the zero clearance design. Besides that I know of no other advantage of running hydraulic lifers [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3700lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.06@122

[head #96]

Thanks guys for everyones advice. It will help in my final decision between the too. UdHarolds profesional advice definitely throws more weight in solid side of the scale. I don't plan on twisting my motor past 5500rpm. I just want to weight out the pro's and con's of these too designs . I would like to see another 8yrs of trouble free service that my present motor has done for me. At the same time drawing the most possible HP out of it. Again thanks everyone for the advise and thank you UdHarold, I'll be running one of your cams soon weather it be solid or hyd. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Hey, Tim C If you don't mind me asking. What duration #s where you running on the street and where do you shift at? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[RH152]

UDharold i run a single holley blue pump with two holley regulators never had any problems i run 2 blue pumps in my 86 grand am tube chassiss low 9 sec ets car has a hyd lunati cam

pure pontiacpowerd 86 grand am
455 eheads hyd. cam 9.24 at 145

[RH152]

maybe i will try 2 pumps see if theres any differenc

pure pontiacpowerd 86 grand am
455 eheads hyd. cam 9.24 at 145

[Steve C.]

If you decide to run a solid cam consider using Crower lifters with the "Coolface" option.
This option features a small diameter oil metering port that is precision machined in the face of the lifter. Delivers more oil to critical, high load areas. No significant oil pressure loss, but significantly improved cam and lifter longevity.
Block restrictors are not recommended.
Plus Crower lifters are properly designed for Pontiac with the oil band in the proper location.

'Damn right it's a street car'

[Dave Schiffers]

Hey Steve? can you give us a part # for those Crower Cool Face Lifters?

[DAVEWATSON]

I don't have any exp. running a solid cams in a pontiac, but I have had the same solid cam in my 70 SCJ 429 COBRA for 13 years. I check the lash every spring and it is always right on.I put around 2500 miles a year on the car. I run 410 gears and turn 4200 rpm down the interstate going to car shows.In 1998 I drove to BowlingGreen KY from central IL, put 350 gears in it and ran 4500 rpm there and back with no problems. The mustang behind me said we were over 120mph.Cam still honking, rings are crying. The only time I adjusted them is screwing around trying different lash to change the power.I think the solid cam story is from people who see solid cam owners always adjusting the rockers. No one ever considers that the guy running a solid cam is a drag racer and he is just tuning every weekend like any drag racer.As far as power goes, I have a copy of a dyno test on a 429 SCJ with 2 cams from comp. Both were identical grinds. The hyd and the solid had the same power and torque curve till 5200 rpm and the hyd fell off dead. The solid kept climbing to 7200 max hp. Noise is not a problem, is quiter than roades lifters on a hyd cam. This winter I am changing my 70 cobra and my 70 judge to solid roller. MY 2 cents.

[Steve C.]

Grump- the solid lifter made by Crower for Pontiac is number 66962.
You would order this lifter with the Coolface option which I think is 66980 (but I'm not 100 percent sure on the option number). Therefore I think the full number would be 66962-66980.
However confirm this with Crower.

'Damn right it's a street car'

[Steve C.]

Looking at the Crower Master Price list it states part number 66962-980 as: SOLID LIFTERS Pontiac V8 (55-up) w/Cool Face Oiling.
The part number 66962 by itself is listed as: SOLID LIFTERS Pontiac V8 (55-up) w/ High Oil Band.
I believe this is the lifter people are using without the need for block restrictors because of the type of oil control (edge orifice type?).
Crower also offers the 66962-3 and is described as: SOLID LIFTERS Hi-Lube Pontiac v8 (55-up) w/High Oil Band (Piddle type oil control?).

( 66980 appears to be a order number and stated as: EXTRA CHARGE For Pressure Fed Oiling )

'Damn right it's a street car'

[Jeff Kinsler]

My old combo was almost exactly like yours now and ran 10.90's to 11.0s' when hot with a crower cam .521 - .544 and 246 - 256 @ .050. The motor was a 462 trw stock bottom end RPM intake w/ 1 inch spacer, 3.55 gears. Any questions just ask.
I currently run a solid roller on the street but only drive it around town and I drive it to the track which is about a 15 - 20 minute ride from my house and havent had any problems with valves coming out of adjustment. The only think to worry about is valve springs wearing out from high spring pressure.

68 Firebird 468
#16 D-Ports w RPM intake
Street Car
10.47 @ 129.21
150 shot soon

[head #96]

Badbird your old combo was running a hyd cam or solid? I've really have my eye on the UD 247/251 @ 50 525/530 solid 108 lob sep. I still have about a month before I purchase. Low 11s high 10s is really flying was yours a street car then? I think a 11.8 to a 11.99 will put one huge smile on my face. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Steve C.]

This from Marlan Davis when he was at Car Craft:

"Because hydraulic lifters pump up at high RPM, theory says that an equivalent solid-lifer cam should make more power over 6,500 RPM because it's able to rev higher before floating the valves; with fewer internal parts, a solid lifter should also be less expensive than a precision hydraulic lifter. However, the unit volume of hydraulic lifter production - including stock applications - is much higher than solid lifters, so in the real world a solid cam and lifters may cost the same or even more than an equivalent hydraulic cam. If you intend to make max power at or below 6,500 RPM, a hydraulic flat-tappet cam is preferred. On the other hand, there's no doubt a solid cam makes the most sense for a car making peak power at or over 7,000 RPM. In terms of 0.050-inch duration, in a typical 350ci small-block, under 240 degrees is clearly falt-tappet territory (unless your car came from the factory equipped with hydraulic lifters). Over 250 degrees, a roller cam offers a clear performance advantage. But things get sticky in the transition zones between 6,000-7,000 RPM and 240-250 degrees at 0.050. Of course, that's precisely the area many hot dual-purpose street cars fall into."

'Damn right it's a street car'

[head #96]

That's an interesting article Steve, I've been getting Carcraft for years and failed to catch that one. I've been doing a lot of research on solid cams. I thought that across the board the solids make more power because lift and duration is always there. They don't have to wait for oil presure to pump the lifter up. The valve as a more direct signal from the camshaft.

I see the article also mentions 350chevys for an example,not sure If that would have anything to do with our ponchos or not? Also If solids don't make anymore power till 6500 what would be the benefit since I don't plan on anything above 5500. I'm just trying to make the right decision for the combo to be reliable and fast at the same time. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]