[Malky]

Can anyone give me some advice on how 87 cc Performer Pontiac heads will affect my idle to mid-range power on this street only combo? Right now I have a '74 455 in a 68 Firebird. Cam is mild 214/222 @0.050 hydraulic roller. Heads are stock 4X with 214 cc chambers so I am only running 8-8.5:1 CR. Torque is 500-550 ft-lb from low down which I want to keep along with good idle, good vacuum, amd stock converter. Gears are 3.36.
I want to switch to the next cam up, eg HR222/230, which should still idle OK with good vacuum, but I need to increase CR. So I was thinking of the Performer. This will give me about 10.2:1 CR but do the high flow numbers and large ports mean losing bottom end performance with this combo?
Thanks,
Malcolm

[Malky]

Can anyone give me some advice on how 87 cc Performer Pontiac heads will affect my idle to mid-range power on this street only combo? Right now I have a '74 455 in a 68 Firebird. Cam is mild 214/222 @0.050 hydraulic roller. Heads are stock 4X with 214 cc chambers so I am only running 8-8.5:1 CR. Torque is 500-550 ft-lb from low down which I want to keep along with good idle, good vacuum, amd stock converter. Gears are 3.36.
I want to switch to the next cam up, eg HR222/230, which should still idle OK with good vacuum, but I need to increase CR. So I was thinking of the Performer. This will give me about 10.2:1 CR but do the high flow numbers and large ports mean losing bottom end performance with this combo?
Thanks,
Malcolm

[BAD ANDY]

I have E-heads on my 400 in a 74 Ventura 350 turbo xmssn and 3.73 gears. Other than the headers are a pain in the butt I REALLY LIKE THEM , the heads that is. Bottom end? I don't have a problem and I basically have a stock engine other than the heads. Of course things were upgraded in the rebuild but only slightly. Anyway our two cars should be close as far as frame and body so check on headers they're tight and require hours of cussing to install.

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

Mine has more bottom end with the E-heads. They will definately out perform what you have now. You won't be sorry you changed.

[Goatracer1]

I disagree. I saw no improvement over my mildly ported cast iron heads on the street and the added cost and fit of the headers was a minus.

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

I've got time slips to back mine up.

[Steve C.]

I friend here in town put unported out-of-the box e-heads on his 455 street/strip combo in a '64 Tempest and picked up about 1/2 second ET at the track with no other changes. Everyones experiances will be different.
New headers of course but they were the same size. Also same cam, same RPM intake & worked Q-jet carb were used. At the time his iron heads were 6X with 2.110 & 1.770 valves, cleaned up and gasket matched and pocket ported. His cam at the time was a hyd flat tappet 235 @.050 with .550 lift on a 110 LS. Trans was a Richmond 5-speed at the time, 3.00 gear (Ford 9"). With this combo he was running 12.70's and after the change he dropped to 12.20's.

[This message was edited by Steve Coombes on January 22, 2004 at 11:39 AM.]

[Fox]

Going from 12.7 to 12.2 in a 1/4 mile is pretty much negligible on the street/seat-of-pants in my opinion. Sure wouldn't be worth the money to me over the slightly worked iron heads, but then again I don't take mine to the track.

[Steve C.]

.... then there is always the pissing match over costs !

[Fox]

Absolutely. Costs a lot to piss in this arena.

[6567GTO]

I'm debating whether it's worth buying a set of the new Kaufman heads for my street/strip 65 GTO. Right now I'm running a 462 w/ basically untouched 670's (just lightly cleaned of casting slag), Ultradyne 235/239 @ .050" hyd cam, 4 sp. and 3.73's. It has turned a best of 12.60
I have a set of 6X-8's that I bought from Spotts which I was going to throw on. Wondering whether it's gonna be a waste of time to go with the KRE's??
I'd love to break into the 11's and run pump gas for a change.

Sorry to hijack your thread Malky.


http://home.earthlink.net/~uptons1/ <~~some pics of my 65 GTO

[This message was edited by 6567GTO on January 22, 2004 at 02:04 PM.]

[Steve C.]

Fox is right, especially if it's for a Pontiac. But then it's not uncommon to spend hundreds if not a thousand to pick up a tenth or two. Especially if going your from say 11's into the 10's compared to going from the 13's to a 11 second car.

[Brian Baker]

Sigh.....here we go with round 47 of the E-head debate.

It's a great head, far better than what you have now, but you'll be pissing up a rope and probably will not be any faster (if faster at all) than you are now if you retain that mild cam.

Just my opinion, but unless you're running a cam with at least 230 @ .050" and .550" lift, you're wasting your money on the E-head.

[Brian Baker]

As for the KRE d-ports coming out, if they flow out of the box comparable to an out of the box E-head, they're going to be a better choice than the E-head in a 5500-rpm street/strip engine.

[Fox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 6567GTO:
I'm debating whether it's worth buying a set of the new Kaufman heads for my street/strip 65 GTO. Right now I'm running a 462 w/ basically untouched 670's (just lightly cleaned of casting slag), Ultradyne 235/239 @ .050" hyd cam, 4 sp. and 3.73's. It has turned a best of 12.60
I have a set of 6X-8's that I bought from Spotts which I was going to throw on. Wondering whether it's gonna be a waste of time to go with the KRE's??
I'd love to break into the 11's and run pump gas for a change.

Sorry to hijack your thread Malky.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm willing to bet you could pick up a few tenths with the KREs. But the exorbitant costs...probably not worth it especially considering the nice setup you already have. Probably cheaper to port the heads you already have so that they flow a good 240I/190E, and you'll be able to run standard premium gas. I'm willing to bet that the ported heads would more than make up for the loss in compression.

[tempest455]

Bob, then you mis-matched something.

Ditto: On one of my old motors I intalled a set and it was a huge improvement over the cast iron 6X's I had at the time.

Tempest455
http://www.wauknet.com/douthitt/

[Goatracer1]

I will stick by my original answer!!! HE says it is a STREET ONLY car. You will not see enough difference on the street to warrant the trouble and expence of using Edelbrock heads. You will spend $1600 on heads, plus bolts or studs , plus another $300 to $600 on either coated or uncoated headers. HE can spend a few hundred dollars to have a limited port job on his heads and never know the difference between the two sets of heads.

[Malky]

As Bob W48 says, my original post was about street use only. I want to feel a seat-of-the-pants improvement after paying all that money 'cos I will not have timeslips or dyno numbers to show subtle changes. The feel I get from the responses is that the e-heads are overkill when I can get the CR increase I want and reasonable flow from a good set of cast iron heads. By the way, Desktop Dyno says that the stock KRE heads are *way* better with my proposed 222/230@0.050 hyd roller cam than the stock E-heads, 460 HP vs 400. I don't want to resurrect any old arguments about DD accuracy, KRE flow numbers, or whatever, but the KRE heads are looking look good to me!
Malcolm

[firechicken]

Although I've only run iron heads personally, all the information I've gathered says you can go fast with any of the above mentioned cylinder heads but E's are a definate improvement over a mild D, even on the street, and leave lots of room for improvement. Don't know squat about KRE's and am still waiting to hear definate conclusions on these. I say if you've got the cash go aluminum and reap the rewards. For me, I've got too much invested in my 6X's to bench them for something else.

[02Hawk]

Then there is the "cool" factor. As long as you are lookin good.........Seriously, E Heads will make you faster, you can run pump gas and they are way cheaper than RA IV heads.....too each his own.... If we all did the same thing, agreed on the same thing we would be typing and reading these posts on a Honda forum

"Vive la difference"