[gtorich]

Are these the tabs you guys are talking about on the shaft.............thought they would be bigger...........hope i got the right one.

This is their hardened shaft.............getting a new oil pump also from precision oil pumps, they have a billet shaft........would this be better than what i have.

Rich

[25stevem]

I guess the Billet is a bit stronger, but not a deal breaker if your only running a 60 psi pump I would say.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by 25stevem

I guess the Billet is a bit stronger, but not a deal breaker if your only running a 60 psi pump I would say.

So steve if you have the 80lb pump, this piece is no good.............i have both pumps a 60 and a 80.

Probably getting a little off track here, but anyone have any pics of a strap securing the oil pick up screen to the pump.

Rich

[chuckies76ta]

These guys have nice ones too. I'm using the IA2 one. http://www.nitemareperformance.com/prices2.html

[25stevem]

Rich, so which pump are you planing on running?

Your asking about the retention strap, so is it that you have a pick up tube without a strap?

[gtorich]

25 Steve......i have the melling stock replacement pick up # 54 DS........dont have it yet, dont think there is a strap on it from the pic.

Are there other pick ups i could use with the strap...........let me know, i could pick them up.

I have both pumps a 60 and a 80lb.........rare that i shift higher than 57-5800 rpm, unless im really not paying attention, think i have the rev limiter at 5900.......did a search on the forum about the differences between the two...........seems its either the 60 camp or the 80 camp..........no switching their minds.....lol

[25stevem]

My 2 cents would be that pump wise unless your road racing a 3.250” main crank that for more then 50% of its run time would be above 4500 to 5000 rpm, I see no need for a 80 psi pump in a street strip motor.

It’s easy to make a pick up tube rap around support bracket out of narrow angle iron or thick enough sheet steel that the bolts to the pump .
All you need is a longer bolt

If your running a stock type round pick up this strap only holds the pick up into the pump since the pump has a cast in nose that locates the proper pick up height off the pans bottom plus keeps the pick up from spinning up towards the crank should it start to work loose if you ran the pick up with no strap.

[78w72]

no need or benefit using a 80lb pump on a street car that barely sees 6000 rpm.

you can add a hardened washer to shim the spring a bit for a few added psi along with a bigger check ball. did that on my 400/467 stroker, using 10/30 oil i get 70-80 psi at "cold" 75-80f start up, then a solid 25 hot idle. more is not better in this type of situation.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by 78w72

no need or benefit using a 80lb pump on a street car that barely sees 6000 rpm.

you can add a hardened washer to shim the spring a bit for a few added psi along with a bigger check ball. did that on my 400/467 stroker, using 10/30 oil i get 70-80 psi at "cold" 75-80f start up, then a solid 25 hot idle. more is not better in this type of situation.

What if a guy is spinning to 7000 rpm? I run a 60 psi pump to 7000 rpm. It puts out 65 psi at that rpm. Thoughts? Thanks
No issues so far. 20w-50 Amsoil.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

What if a guy is spinning to 7000 rpm? I run a 60 psi pump to 7000 rpm. It puts out 65 psi at that rpm. Thoughts? Thanks
No issues so far. 20w-50 Amsoil.

will leave that to the experts to answer, but if its sees above 6000 on a regular basis then a higher psi pump may be a benefit. however if you have adequate psi (~10psi/1000rpm) with the pump/oil you are using now then its probably OK as is or consider shimming the spring for a little extra psi.

[chuckies76ta]

Found this little graph online. Show pressure to journal size.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

What if a guy is spinning to 7000 rpm? I run a 60 psi pump to 7000 rpm. It puts out 65 psi at that rpm. Thoughts? Thanks
No issues so far. 20w-50 Amsoil.

60psi is fine, I ran to 8000 with 65psi and 9000 with 60psi. Worry more about flow than psi.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by slowbird

60psi is fine, I ran to 8000 with 65psi and 9000 with 60psi. Worry more about flow than psi.

Thanks. My IA2 is only 3 inch main bearings with a 4.25 stroke.

I've been reading alot on oil flow with oil filters lately and micron ratings. Interesting stuff.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

Thanks. My IA2 is only 3 inch main bearings with a 4.25 stroke.
I've been reading alot on oil flow with oil filters lately and micron ratings. Interesting stuff.

Hmmm, do tell.............

[mgarblik]

Maybe I have been the luckiest Pontiac guy alive but I have NEVER broken an oil pump drive in any Pontiac engine that was running correctly. I have seen a fair amount of wear on the tangs after 150, 200K miles. I have seen the tangs break when something else got into the oil pump and locked the gears or got jammed between the gear and the housing. But I have never seen one break just from metal fatigue. I have seen many Ford oil pump drives break or twist up like a barber pole, but they use a tiny allen wrench looking drive that is a mile long. I think it's only 1/4". On a Pontiac, just make sure the drive rod has a little up and down wiggle room with the distributor installed and don't worry about it. Think about it. A regular 14 volt cordless drill has no trouble turning a Pontiac oil pump for priming the engine. It will even do an 80 lb. pump just fine. How much HP can it possibly take to run the pump. Maybe 2 maximum. With the 80 lb. pump, the factory did supply a hardened drive shaft.

[Steve C.]

Calculate Horsepower To Drive Oil Pump

http://www.wallaceracing.com/oil-pump-hp-calc.php



.

[Formulas]

engine masters back to back tested every oil pump available for a 440 Mopar because its an external pump lending itself to quick change high pressures low pressures high low volumes and even a gearotor milodon pump

other than 1 or so HP variations from run to run attributed to engine temp and oil temp and basic dyno variations they basically came up with myth busted on the great loss of power using a high pressure pump

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Calculate Horsepower To Drive Oil Pump

http://www.wallaceracing.com/oil-pump-hp-calc.php



.

OK played with the Wallace calculator. 80 lb pump, 8 GPM which is generous and 100% efficiency. The biggest numbers I could reasonably come up with= .45 HP. That sounds about right to me.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Maybe I have been the luckiest Pontiac guy alive but I have NEVER broken an oil pump drive in any Pontiac engine that was running correctly. I have seen a fair amount of wear on the tangs after 150, 200K miles. I have seen the tangs break when something else got into the oil pump and locked the gears or got jammed between the gear and the housing. But I have never seen one break just from metal fatigue. I have seen many Ford oil pump drives break or twist up like a barber pole, but they use a tiny allen wrench looking drive that is a mile long. I think it's only 1/4". On a Pontiac, just make sure the drive rod has a little up and down wiggle room with the distributor installed and don't worry about it. Think about it. A regular 14 volt cordless drill has no trouble turning a Pontiac oil pump for priming the engine. It will even do an 80 lb. pump just fine. How much HP can it possibly take to run the pump. Maybe 2 maximum. With the 80 lb. pump, the factory did supply a hardened drive shaft.

Mike, you are the luckiest Pontiac guy alive! While I have never broken an oil pump drive shaft I have had a couple turn to pretzels, even the hardened ones Ken Crocie used to sell. I could never quite come up with an explanation as to why.

[grivera]

From Butler Performance: https://www.pontiacv8.com/articles/2018/3/26/oilpump

Butler says that since an engine with smaller-diameter main journals (3-inch) and shorter-stroke crankshafts (4.21-inch or less) is generally less stressful on the bearings, a 60-psi pump may provide adequate lubrication in a modified engine, but an 80-psi pump is a better choice. He says any performance engine with 3.25-inch-diameter main journals and/or a stroker length greater than 4.21 inches should use an 80-psi pump. “The greater oil pressure associated with the 80-psi pump improves the strength of the oil film, and better protects the bearings in large journal and/or long-stroke applications,” he adds.

Common hobbyist concerns when using an 80-psi oil pump in a street engine include excessive parasitic loss, bearing wash, and premature distributor and/or cam gear wear.

“We’ve never seen a noticeable performance loss from the added load,” says Butler. “Racers will sometimes run a 60-psi pump to reduce parasitic drag and free up a few horsepower. While that’s acceptable in a dedicated race engine that’s frequently torn down, it’s certainly not something we recommend for all engines.”