[65Mark]

One more paint or no paint question. Seeing as how 64 VIN tags are welded on I assume the VIN tag got painted. I doubt they would tape it off during paint, especially at the Fremont plant. Getting ready to do the jams.

Thanks for any help!

[3 Deuce 64]

no paint on the vins

[65Mark]

Thanks!

[Old Man Taylor]

Mine is painted now, but it was not painted originally.

[John V.]

My car was built at Fremont, unpainted VIN tag.

There is pretty certain info about the Pontiac Plant as to where the VIN tag was installed in '64, it was on the Final Assembly side, just after the Body Bank, apparently in sequence as the Body Assemblies were sequenced to the final line out of the Body Bank.

This may have been very different in later years. It also may have been different at other Plants.

But for '64 anyway, it is pretty apparent that the VIN tag itself went on after the complete and fully painted Body Assembly came over from the Fisher Body side of the operation.

Near as I can tell.

[Andre]

I like John V's explanation, and while I am incriminating myself, I have certainly seen the vin area under a '64 Tempest or two, and all that was there was red oxide primer.
That didn't make any sense to me back then, and still doesn't now.

[3 Deuce 64]

I just went out and popped two vin tags off 64s ( parts cars ) one tempest custom vert and a lemans hard top both Pontiac cars there was body color under both tags

[65Mark]

Thanks for all the replies!

There needs to be a definitive list with all these specs. I know many have posted lists that they have, and believe to be true, but there is some conflict between those lists. It's get confusing reading all the different posts with the conflicting info. Sometimes one persons list is updated and the update is in a different post and gets missed (at least by me) until later, if at all. Maybe a sticky that could be updated as conclusive info is revealed, and info that isn't conclusive could be tagged as "best known" or something. I could do a spreadsheet with all the coatings and all the pieces if I had enough information. I know such a list would make life easier for anyone restoring their car. I have almost all the restoration guides published and a lot of this info either isn't in there or conflicts with another guide. One list for each year would be best.

Thoughts?

[John V.]

Task is just too monumental I'm afraid.

Way too many variables. Running changes, some documented, some not. Four Final Assembly Plants each supplied by its own co-located Fisher Body Plant.

Different suppliers for some parts.

There was always the possibility of an approved deviation, not to mention a factory build error.

I can't explain how Andre could have found red oxide primer under any '64 Tempest VIN tag, and it makes no sense to him either. Yet, none of us can be sure that such a thing might have been standard practice at one or more of the Plants.

What I described was true at the ancient Pontiac, Mich plant. But the Fremont Plant was brand new and operated as a BOP controlled plant. The sequence of build operations may have been very different from the Pontiac Plant because of different practices or because they laid the plant out to be more efficient based on experience gained at older plants. And KC and Baltimore were Chevy controlled Plants, maybe it was their practice to have Fisher Body install the VIN tag and prior to finish paint.

You would think that would be easy to determine, but it's not. I'm certainly not planning to remove the VIN tag from my Fremont build, so no way for me to be certain if it is body color underneath.

About all you can do is try to get a consensus and go with what "feels" right to you I think.

One or more guys on this forum have posted some pretty extensive lists of "correct" coatings for lots of things from their own experience.

I know the Resto Guide was wrong about a few things, the knowledge base in the hobby has expanded enormously since it was published so that should be no surprise.

So any list that was generated will be outdated in short order IMO as new info is unearthed.

Best I can tell you, if you keep posting the questions, many of us will offer the best info we have, and probably the best available anywhere.

[Andre]

While my 2 '64 GTO's are Fremont built cars, I can neither tell you what plant the cars I remember seeing this were from. This was in the pre-digital age, and one car was a '64 Tempest Custom with Saddle bronze metallic. The other car was a red interior car, but I have no idea what the original color was. It didn't even seem worthy of documentation, and I was certain I was going to see body color and was surprised when I saw red oxide. I have a 64 Lemans convertible waiting for resto, but I am not pulling that vin either.

[Tom Vaught]

No paint on the VIN Tag of either of my KC Built cars.

Tom Vaught

[65Mark]

John V, I agree, it would be a monumental task. It would be a good check list for GTOAA judges too. I know a friend that had a survivor 64 and was docked points for a wrong alternator, and it was the original one. Apparently the judge didn't know the was more than one correct alternator. He now has the paper work to prove it next time, but too late for last year. He still got a Silver. Little stuff like this is one reason I'll never worry about "correct" for any of my personal cars. I didn't worry about it in 71 when I got my first 65 GTO and I won't worry about it now. But, many people do and it would be nice.

[John V.]

I would eat it up if somebody put it together and my car will never be perfect either. I just love finding out about the details.

Incidentally, do you know what Alt your buddy has?

That is one very small example of how difficult the challenge is.

Matter of semantics, but there really was only one CORRECT alt for a given application.

However, there was a Running Change that changed the Alt applications so that an early PS car got one specific Alt and a later PS car got another specific Alt, the change meant that the later PS cars got the same 37A Alt as the "no option" standard cars. The early PS 37A Alt with the twin V-belt set-up was discontinued.

But if a judge was unaware of the change, I can see where a guy, probably with a PS car & 37A Alt, got marked down because the judge only knew about one of the set-ups but not both.

[65Mark]

I don't remember which one he has. That was what happened, the judge didn't know about there being more than one. I'll find out the next time I see the car.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by John V.

Task is just too monumental I'm afraid.

Way too many variables. Running changes, some documented, some not. Four Final Assembly Plants each supplied by its own co-located Fisher Body Plant.

Different suppliers for some parts.

There was always the possibility of an approved deviation, not to mention a factory build error.

I can't explain how Andre could have found red oxide primer under any '64 Tempest VIN tag, and it makes no sense to him either. Yet, none of us can be sure that such a thing might have been standard practice at one or more of the Plants.

What I described was true at the ancient Pontiac, Mich plant. But the Fremont Plant was brand new and operated as a BOP controlled plant. The sequence of build operations may have been very different from the Pontiac Plant because of different practices or because they laid the plant out to be more efficient based on experience gained at older plants. And KC and Baltimore were Chevy controlled Plants, maybe it was their practice to have Fisher Body install the VIN tag and prior to finish paint.

You would think that would be easy to determine, but it's not. I'm certainly not planning to remove the VIN tag from my Fremont build, so no way for me to be certain if it is body color underneath.

About all you can do is try to get a consensus and go with what "feels" right to you I think.

One or more guys on this forum have posted some pretty extensive lists of "correct" coatings for lots of things from their own experience.

I know the Resto Guide was wrong about a few things, the knowledge base in the hobby has expanded enormously since it was published so that should be no surprise.

So any list that was generated will be outdated in short order IMO as new info is unearthed.

Best I can tell you, if you keep posting the questions, many of us will offer the best info we have, and probably the best available anywhere.

Well said, sir.

K

[3 Deuce 64]

Just a note to add here there is primer not body color under the cowl tag but I guess this makes sense as the paint codes are on the cowl tag. I think the only exception would be where spec is stamped to note a special order color. John can probably add to this .