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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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Amputee complications with clutch pedal pressure
So here is the deal. A few years ago I restored a 1968 Firebird for a customer. It is an original 400/4 speed car. Soon after completion, the owner had a medical condition that required removal of his lower left leg.
He wants to retain the 4 speed instead of going with an automatic. Can someone here offer an alternative situation? I'll be looking at hydraulic set ups as an option to a mechanical arrangement. Last edited by 400 4spd.; 12-18-2021 at 11:52 PM. |
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I found this on the net;
https://www.beneficialdesigns.com/pr...hand-controls/ I don't know if this is something that could help out, or not? It says it requires good dexterity, and arm strength. The only other thing I could think of is a switch on the shifter (maybe activated by something like a motorcycle clutch handle) and an electric motor, and pump to assist a hydraulic clutch. Would require a bunch of fabrication to get it all working though. A rheostat could make it apply at a variable rate? Just trying to brainstorm something.
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Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated Last edited by Sirrotica; 12-19-2021 at 02:05 AM. |
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Lower left leg - what prosthetic if any is he using? Maybe, with a good prosthetic and a hydraulic clutch, he can operate as normal?
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1965 Pontiac GTO 455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power 9.25:1 CR Stump Puller Cam Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00 3.55 Rear Differential Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6" Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28" |
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My wife had one in her Karmann Ghia which she loved to drive without the hassle of operating a clutch pedal.
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Ed 1968 GTO (Thanks Mom) 2006 Silverado 2007 Cadillac SRX 2015 Chevy Express 2024 Cadillac LYRIQ |
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Thanks for trying to help out your customer. I'm a BK amputee on my right leg so my problem is different than his. One of the biggest things I found was loss of ankle movement. My prostheses allows some ankle movement but not a lot. Couple things. What's his range of motion and strenth of left leg? Has your customer tried to work the clutch pedal to identify any problems or issues? That should give you a start point. Sounds like he has a positive attitude which is a big help. Please feel free to to PM me or pass my contact info to your customer.
John |
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What John Said
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Clay |
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If he can work a pedal but needs lighter load, two possibilities come to mind:
1) switch to a dual disk clutch because they need less pedal effort to achieve the necessary torque capacity. Most of them need a deeper bellhousing but I think the McLeod will fit in a stock bellhousing. 2) I worked on a Ford 1-ton truck many years ago that had an over-center spring arrangement on the clutch pedal. When the pedal was up, the spring was pushing the pedal up. Part way thru the pedal travel, the spring went past center and started assisting in pushing the pedal down. That would take a bunch of fabrication to recreate that, but it's good to put all ideas on the table. Hope this helps, Eric
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"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" noted philosopher Mike Tyson Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions.” |
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Thanks for all of the responses, they are all helpful. And I realize I should have given more information in my first post. My customer does wear a prosthetic leg, but I can't describe the design/type that it is. He called me last week to say he had finally driven the car (on his farm property) for the first time since the surgery, and that it was a bit painful to operate the clutch because of the pressure it required. Without going through the receipts I'm pretty sure I put a Ram brand diaphragm clutch in it.
Because he lives an hour and a half away, I think I'll go and visit him to see what his limitations are and talk about some possibilities. |
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How about a hydraulic clutch and a power brake booster. A very small booster could be modified to accept a clutch master cylinder making it very easy to apply.
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Tight quarters for an added booster. I've used hydraulic clutch set ups on Tremec conversions where an automatic was pulled out, so I don't have any "same car" mechanical vs. hydraulic comparisons to rely on. Does swapping mechanical to hydraulic reduce pedal effort? |
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Pedal effort can be reduced by sizing different bores on the master and slave, but it's a tradeoff. Reducing the pedal effort also increases the stroke, no free lunch when you're doing a certain job requiring X amount of lbs to move, requires Y amount of energy.
It just gets there by either a long stroke with less effort, or a short stroke with more effort. The same amount of energy is required either way. It's just simple physics. The assisted power from say a power steering pump, or as I first posted an electric pump. There is also a way to pulse an electric over hydraulic valve electronically causing a dwell reading, or so much time open that can slow down, or speed up a hydraulic action. It can be done, but depending upon how much time and money the customer, and you is willing to expend. I guess it boils down to how much assist he's going to need with his condition. The equipment needed is going to vary upon how much physical effort he can put into each clutch disengagement/engagement continually. Stop and go could be a nightmare in this situation, and require much more assist than just a leisurely drive in the country. One other thing is if he float shifts after getting the car moving he's going to do a lot less clutching. Having driven big trucks for a few years, it takes some getting used to, to float shift, but of the 2 trucks I own with manual transmissions, I only use the clutch to start and stop, if he gets fairly proficient at float shifting you can kick the vehicle into neutral when stopping saving some more clutch effort. The electric hydraulic pump used in outboard boats to raise and lower the engine/drive unit would be plenty to run a hydraulic clutch. |
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Saxomat used an automagic clutch that disengaged when the shift lever was pressed. Was quite sensitive. How could anything used in the Trabant go rong ?
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hydraulic clutch slave cylinder with a variable speed hydraulic pump with a constant, small diameter bleed orifice. I would think that speeding up and slowing down the pump would work with the "bypass" bleed orifice to give the sensitivity needed.
Just spitballin' here.
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Clutch Guys Matter _______________________________________ 53 Studebaker, 400P/th400/9" 64 F-85 72 4-4-2 Mondello's VO Twister II 84 Hurst/Olds #2449 87 Cutlass Salon 54 Olds 88 sedan |
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Take both ideas, and decide which would be simpler/cheaper to institute based upon the needs of the customer, space considerations, parts availability, etc. etc. FWIW, I mentioned this post to my wife, who is an RN, and a patient advocate for Medicare and insurance patients. She had some ideas of who could assist the customer as far as agencies. I'm sure she would be happy to reach out as far as, who might be able to assist in making the customers idea a reality. |
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I would think that working with a good prosthetist and Occupational Therapist would be at least as important, if not more so, than anything else.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Ray Klemm calibrated Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
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What about a TH400 with a full manual valve body, still needs to be shifted but no clutch to deal with.
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“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ― Calvin Coolidge |
#19
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I have had two cars with hyd bearing clutch setup.Never found them more EZ to push in.Still driving one of them today.FWIW,Tom
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#20
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A good friend of mine brought this thread to my attention. First I want to compliment the guys posting on this thread for the creative ideas they have provided. In one form or another I have explored most of them. We are currently working on a fourth generation of a hand operated clutch to operate a clutch as normal. In other words smooth operation with easy lift off or to power shift. I achieved this in a 1990 ZR-1 using a modified hydra boost unit backed up to the factory master cylinder with some fabricated additional leverage. That unit sat in place of the battery which was moved onboard into a storage compartment behind the seat similar to the older Vettes. This system worked well and the car was driven 17,000 miles. Next was a 2006 Z06. The power assist used was a vacuum booster (modified) backed up to the OE master cylinder. I removed the windshield washer jar which is located inside the fender liner behind the front left tire. This system was a much easier and cleaner install and took advantage of the extra space. 27,000 miles driven. It worked so nice that I repeated it in a 2013 427 with another 4,000 miles driven. Some general information. On the ZR-1 it uses a slave cylinder. Pressure on the clutch pedal is 35 to 38 pounds. The Z06 uses a hydraulic release bearing and the pedal effort is 22 to 24 pounds at the pedal. Ultimately using a hand clutch you need to bring this down to just a few pounds of squeezing your fingers just a couple of inches or less. Remember that even at 22-24 at the pedal there is another eleven inches or so of leverage with that pedal going to the master cylinder. My goals of installation have always been minimally or non invasive to the cars using existing bolt holes and cavities under the hood/ body and the same for inside the car. I wanted as little seen as possible no matter where it was. Keeping the cars with a normal clean look. Recently I picked up a 1969 427 roadster and there is a new set of space constraints. I have been very fortunate as another good friend of mine an accomplished engineer is helping with a new design set up. Being a finance guy myself he has gone way over my head with whiz bang technology. Our project is currently held up like everything else waiting on shipments. Once perfected in the next couple of months we are hoping to be able to provide a kit for installation. This unit will be electro hydraulic and take up minimal space. Lastly these are not cheap installations to achieve. The materials cost alone in each of these cases approaches $2k depending on needs, this does not include labor. Each of the units I have built allowed the option of driving the car normally or driving the car with the hand clutch, requiring two onboard OE master cylinders. So far I have only built these for myself. If we are successful in putting a kit together in this latest gen build then we would have them for outside interest. Please feel free to private message if I can help further. Bill |
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