[John Eiseman]

I have your original WW block here. Fairly optioned car with 4 speed, white cordova top, green interior, safe t track, AM/FM Stereo Tape, Rally Gauges, Power Discs, Soft Ray Tint-All, Door Edge Guards. Unusual with a white top. Does anyone know who may have this car? Would like to offer up their original block. Sold @ Orson E. Coe Pontiac in Grand Rapids, Mi. Thanks!

[flyingn]

ttt for a good cause

[SD455DJ]

John, My brother Dan and I grew up in Grand Rapids only a couple of miles away from O.E. Coe Pontiac and never saw that Judge. That is a very unusual color combo and being a RAIV to boot. Saw plenty of other neat Pontaics come from there, but not that one. My first job was working at the McD's across the street from Coe Pontiac and I would wait on O.E. Coe himself (1972/73-ish), who was in his 70's by then. He would talk about the Trans Ams and what nice 'hot rods' they were.

Dennis

[GTOnly70]

A noble effort. I wish you good luck in your search, though there is a pretty fair chance the engine was removed when the car was wrecked.

[John Eiseman]

Found out some history of this WW block.
In 83, a gentleman from Yakima, Wa. bought this complete WW engine, carb to pan, from Larry L. in Milwaukee, Wi. for the sum of 2400. He put this engine into a 69 T/A Ram IV auto car because at that time complete Ram IV engines were hard to find.
Some time later he sold the T/A. Years later he got a call from another gentleman, John in Aberdeen, Wa. who had just bought the 69 T/A. John then called the gentleman in Yakima to ask some questions about the T/A. John had found a correct XP block for the Bird and ended up selling the WW engine back to the man from Yakima. He later sold this WW block to someone else.
I did give Larry L. a call and asked him about this particular block. He said that he has sold 150-200 engines since then and has no recollection of said block. I did give him a description of the car too.
Does anyone in the greater Milwaukee area remember this car or maybe selling this engine to Larry?

[A Schab]

Was the first name of the guy from Yakima Ron?

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by John Eiseman

Found out some history of this WW block.
In 83, a gentleman from Yakima, Wa. bought this complete WW engine, carb to pan, from Larry L. in Milwaukee, Wi. for the sum of 2400. He put this engine into a 69 T/A Ram IV auto car because at that time complete Ram IV engines were hard to find.
Some time later he sold the T/A. Years later he got a call from another gentleman, John in Aberdeen, Wa. who had just bought the 69 T/A. John then called the gentleman in Yakima to ask some questions about the T/A. John had found a correct XP block for the Bird and ended up selling the WW engine back to the man from Yakima. He later sold this WW block to someone else.
I did give Larry L. a call and asked him about this particular block. He said that he has sold 150-200 engines since then and has no recollection of said block. I did give him a description of the car too.
Does anyone in the greater Milwaukee area remember this car or maybe selling this engine to Larry?

Nope but I know Larry from Butler Classics. Been around a long time. I used to hang around with a guy named Jeff Braley back then who worked at a local dealership and he told me of a few RAIV's around the Milwaukee area. Even in the 1980's these engines were so hard to find but Jeff told me of a couple RAIV's around but never saw one. I can't recall the car Jeff said that RAIV engine was in.

[John Eiseman]

I had an e mail from Jeff on these boards. Jeff worked for Larry in the mid to late 80's and spoke with Larry recently about this block. Larry said he never parted a Ram Air IV car. So more than likely he got the engine from someone in that area.
Does anyone know if a search can be done through the WI. or Mi. DMV? I do realize the car could be long gone but would like to exhaust these measures first before selling the block. There should be an ad in next month's The Legend magazine Thanks for any help or ideas you'all may have!

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by John Eiseman

I had an e mail from Jeff on these boards. Jeff worked for Larry in the mid to late 80's and spoke with Larry recently about this block. Larry said he never parted a Ram Air IV car. So more than likely he got the engine from someone in that area.
Does anyone know if a search can be done through the WI. or Mi. DMV? I do realize the car could be long gone but would like to exhaust these measures first before selling the block. There should be an ad in next month's The Legend magazine Thanks for any help or ideas you'all may have!

I had no idea Jeff worked with Larry back then or if he was still into cars. Last I knew, mid 1980's or so, Jeff sold everything he had including his nitro sized 69 orange Judge. Jeff had a LOT of stuff back then and I bought a few items from him when he still worked at the dealership including complete GM Judge stripe kits. ANY WW block you find now, if it is original, is worth gold. So many were destroyed in their day but with all the restamping going on it is hard to tell originals from fakes. I hope someone will pony up and take that block.

[Uncle Judge]

Hi Jack, John is referring to me. I think you meant Braley?

[CatnDoo]

I spoke with John today. I am still in shock to learn that the original block still exists. I have known this car since 1972 and have owned it since 1977.

It was purchased from Ernie Von Schledorn in Milwaukee in 1972. The original block was already gone....

Heres a pic of the car in 1977 shortly after I purchased it.

[CatnDoo]

The car was restored several years back.

[will slow gto]

Great find and photos! Hope you can get the original block back under the hood.

[Judge273]

That sounds so cool! Is it getting back together? What's the details..

Original block exists and car too...two years removed from car. Something sounds interesting, like a good block was taken after warranty replacement?

[Brewster]

Awesome story keep us posted.

[cornwall4000]

absolutely incredible story.
reading this thread made me very happy!

[charles bledsoe]

Maybe there is hope for me. My 1972 Formula 455HO has everything except the original block. The engine was changed out in 73 (why I don't know) and the dealership painted the engine in the car with the new EPA update color blue (which showed compliance with the new regulations). The 72 color is still on the intake and other parts they couldn't get to due to it (engine) being painted in the car with everything installed. The car has been in this area its whole life, the bad thing is the dealership went out of business decades ago. Guess I'll start a thread in the 70-73 Firebird section. Glad to hear you were able to get your correct block back!! Thanks John for being persistent, you did a great deed. I'm sure the owner is very grateful.

[CatnDoo]

Greetings

First, a little history.

Early August, my daughter sends a text claiming a man from Arizona was questioning whether she was related to me.....A few days later, my son contacted me about the same thing.... My son lives in California, my daughter in South Carolina while I'm in Wisconsin. What’s going on? Who is this guy from Arizona and more importantly, what does he want?

I later spoke to my daughter who claimed the man from Arizona was also questioning whether I had a green GTO.... Then, provided his name and phone number for me to call.

I assumed the gentleman from Arizona was interested in buying my GTO. I simply dismissed the idea of calling him as I was not interested in selling my GTO. A day or two later, I get another message from my son stating he forgot to mention that the guy from Arizona also mentioned something about a GTO motor.

I then decided to call the gentlemen from Arizona. After the introductions, the gentleman briefly describes my car as if he were reading it from a PHS document.... Somewhat surprised, I asked how he new my car? He then stated, from PHS information acquired from your original Ram Air IV engine block! I know where your original Ram Air IV engine block is. Neither I nor the gentleman from Arizona had time to talk much further. We agree that I would call him later when time allowed.

At first, learning of this RAIV block simply did not register with me. Now, as stated earlier in this thread, I've known of my car since 1972 and owned the car since 1977. Already, in 1972 the original RAIV block was gone. Working at the local Pontiac dealership, my co-workers / friends would speculate endlessly as to what happed to the original block. The conclusion was always the same; it was blown-up / scrapped and long gone. For 40+ years when someone would ask, does your car have the original RAIV motor? I'd have to hang my head and say no, it was already gone in 1972. It’s like having a bucket of gold without the gold in it….

Skepticism – It took a few days and then I called the gentleman from Arizona back. One way or another I was going to find out whether this is legit or is someone trying to peddle a re-stamped block. It was this call that I learned of John Eiseman AND that he posted on max performance that he was trying to find the owner of a 70 Verdoro green, white cordova topped, RAIV 4-spd Judge. John had posted this in January and it was now August. We left the call with the understanding that John Eisemann would be calling me next.

I immediately jumped onto Max performance to find this post that the gentleman from Arizona was referring to in the last call. I found the post and read it through. This was interesting, especially the part where John Eiseman had traced the engine block back to Milwaukee in1983. My car was purchased from the Milwaukee area in 1972. Could this be real?

It was a day or so later that John Eiseman called me at work. I had to make it short so we exchanged information and I called him back later that day. We talked some about the block, how he acquired it and what he knew about it. It sounded like the block was in decent shape for being nearly 46 years old. We verified text messaging and exchanged e-mails for pictures to be sent.

At this point, I am still in denial as this just does not happen. At least 44 years have gone by since the engine was somehow separated from the car. How the engine was separated from the car is still a mystery. I still did not believe this was happening.

John provided good high resolution pictures of the front block facing. I studied them for quite sometime and was convinced that this was the real deal. Over the next few weeks, pictures from many of the blocks critical areas were sent while dialog continued until we agreed upon shipping details, preparation and final costs.

During this timeframe other side discussions started with the many Pontiac friends and acquaintances from the past 40-45 years. Many were as I and couldn’t believe the block still existed. Some still dont as they have yet to see it.

John Eiseman is a stand-up guy and likely could have sold that block several times over. One could have given up the search simply because cars were commonly wrecked and only drivetrains were salvaged. I am thankful that John persisted and believes that things happen for reasons as I firmly do.

The block arrived Friday before Labor Day and is better in real life than in the pictures. I am hopeful that others can experience what I just experienced and have the satisfaction of re-uniting long lost blocks and other parts to their original places. I have several of the parts required to complete the build, but will still need to collect others and will do so over this next winter.

Cat

[johnta1]

Great story!

Congrats on being reunited with the RA IV engine.
Congrats to John for being a great guy also!

[judger69]

WOW !!! What a great story. Congrats on finding the original block. Im sure there are many a RA 4 car owner who would wish this would happen to them.

I am not a pessimist and believe that good things happen to good people. I think there are still a lot of good people in this world. There are some scam artists too. Good for you to know which this is.

Now if you could only find out why the (now perfectly fine) RA 4 engine was removed from the car. Possibly it was a back garage deal where it suddenly was "no good and we are going to scrap it and give you a SR engine". But there are a 100's of possibilities to what happened that you may never find out.

At the end of it all YOU HAVE THE BORN WITH ENGINE FOR THAT RA 4 CAR. That in itself is very very rare. Most are SR's.

I'm sure you are very excited. I know I would be. Congratulations !!!!