[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

Hey I've got another measure that nobody has mentioned. Might not apply to everyone, but...

Too much power is when your wife, girlfriend, or any other desirable female refuses to ride in the car with you.

Been there.

Good point..... but you really need to tell them to buck up. The wife {girlfriend at the time} rode in my Nova all the way from Waterloo, Ia to Minneapolis for the all weekend Car Craft summer nats in 05'. 11:1 350SBC 258/264@.050 solid FT cam, 3" exhaust dumped before the rear. Loud and hot. No radio. No AC. No vent windows in the 73'. I ran it around 3300-3800 RPM all the way up there and she didnt say a bad word about it there, all weekend, or back. I was more than ready to get out of it by the time we got done.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

Hey I've got another measure that nobody has mentioned. Might not apply to everyone, but...

Too much power is when your wife, girlfriend, or any other desirable female refuses to ride in the car with you.

Been there.

I'm confused. I thought too LITTLE is when they still want to go in the car.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by TransAm525

I believe the questions is relative to the vehicle's intended use. If you use your vehicle as a daily driver, as I do, it becomes a factor of how much you're willing to tolerate in terms of idle quality, cruise rpm, fuel consumption, and durability. Without using power adders such as turbochargers or superchargers, it's going to take large cubic inches, large camshafts, and high compression to make the big numbers, all of which have their drawbacks in terms of street manners and operating expenses. For a vehicle limited to car shows and weekend cruises, the limit becomes commensurate to your expendable income.

Even then if its just a street car without a race chassis, there comes a point where power is just for the sake of numbers. This guys 800hp car can do a burnout for a city block just the same as this other guy with 1000hp. At some point it becomes useless no matter what the intent is.

[arcitech]

Originally Posted by PontGuy

Hey I've got another measure that nobody has mentioned. Might not apply to everyone, but...

Too much power is when your wife, girlfriend, or any other desirable female refuses to ride in the car with you.

Been there.

For some of us, that is exactly enough horsepower!!

[arcitech]

I know where my limits are as a driver, and what I want my car to do, so for me:
462ci, reproduction Tri Power, Edelbrock D-Ports, 200-4R, Currie +9 with 3.50 posi. I want to be able to cruise on the highway with as close to the same gas mileage as my Nissan Titan (19-21mpg), idle cool on hot summer days with the A/C on, and spin the tires on a downshift passing the occasional Camaro. I'm not putting on slicks and I'm not street racing. I know the weak link in my combo is the transmission, and when that becomes a problem, I will be looking at my options. Until then, my estimate is 350-420hp, 500-575ft/lbs and plenty of fun. My opinion is that you can have fun with just about any power combination, as long as you like driving the car, and it does what you expect it to do. I had a 1980 Toyota 2WD pickup that was a blast to drive after I pulled all the emissions crap off and put on a set of headers, I could out run my buddy's built GMC 4X4 and it sounded like a superbike when I would get up in the revs. I don't think I had more than 100hp, but I had the most fun just driving the snot out of that truck!!

So, IMHO, if it is fun to drive and you drive it often, then you have exactly the right combination!!

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

I'm reading the OP and what I get as the question is what HP/TQ number can a stock type A-Body and tires use without just blowing the tires up at take off on the street...... Is that 400,450,500?
I'm curious about this myself. If I can't step hard into it to get out in traffic from a stop without blowing up the tires, thereby effectively stopping the car and getting hit in the ass by oncoming traffic, the power is not very useful to me in my daily driver.

[Lee]

I've owned cars, which I've raced at the track in street trim, that have ran 10's, 11's, 12's, 13's, 14's, 15's, 16's, & 17's.

Personally, mid-12's to mid-13's is the range where my own cars have been most - overall - enjoyable to drive.

[marks73ta]

To answer the original question. I agree that a good torque 450 HP engine in the OP's original example will be a good limit for that car. If that is his cars final combination and he can be happy with that, then it's all good. Personally, enough is never enough for me. I always want to build more. More chassis to use more power to go more fast. But that is just me. Others can be happy with a stopping point. And that is their right and their freedom. As myself and many others have stated. It's personal choice.

Mark

[paul s.]

As far as low speed driveability and vacuum for power brakes are concerned--- with only a moderate stall speed convertor for automatic trans equipped vehicles --- 450-475hp is a good target for a cast iron headed combo whereas 550+ hp can be had with aluminum heads with a 91 octane pump gas requirement.

[David Holmberg]

I'll let you know when I find "too much" Power.

[jonmachota78]

All i know is mine is not enough (sigh)...

[77HANDMEDOWN]

First off how big are the brakes? Lol

I like what someone said about chasing a tune or tune up. That sucks! But a car that has a lot of power and revs really fast or has a really catchy clutch can be very rewarding to tame or master and drive smoothly in day to day traffic.

There are tons of guys out there that never push any car much less their hotrod but expect they will know what to do when it gets away from them. It is like playing the guitar or piano. If you play every couple of weeks on nice days you will suck. If you are shredding morning, lunch and evening in every car or on every bike your butt hits the seat in then then you will get used to even a 600 hp car and want more.

[Nicks67GTO]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

I'm reading the OP and what I get as the question is what HP/TQ number can a stock type A-Body and tires use without just blowing the tires up at take off on the street...... Is that 400,450,500?
I'm curious about this myself. If I can't step hard into it to get out in traffic from a stop without blowing up the tires, thereby effectively stopping the car and getting hit in the ass by oncoming traffic, the power is not very useful to me in my daily driver.

Yeah thats just about exactly what I was getting at. You also make agood point about stepping out into traffic and going up in smoke because you gave it just a hair too much trying to get out of the way. That would make the cars rediculous power kind of dangerous in a different way.

Im basically talking about a stock A body with some nice rear control arms, aftermarket shocks and maybe lowering springs and a larger 275 series radial tire because these are very common bolt on type of parts that drastically improve performance over stock. No cutting. No hardcore racecar stuff. Just a Joe Blow touring street driver type.

I agree that too much power is fun, but when does it honmestly just become expensive for the sake of being expensive? I can only imagine that a 700hp/700ftlbs 535" IA2 Poncho would just obliterate a set of 275 radials going from a 45mph cruise to WOT. Does anyone have any expierence with something like that?

[locomotivebreath]

I was goin to stroke my 400 for the 500 + hp treatment until one night in my buddy's mod mustang changed my mind . He built the typical ford mod guy motor with a pro charger , dynyoed like 500hp at the wheels . We promptly planted it some guys yard on a 2-3 shift at about 60mph. After the cops, a wrecker , and our wives coming to get us , I had to reevaluate what I was trying to accomplish with my gto. His car is a bear to drive, always has some sort of fuel pressure or computer glitch will trade ends instantly but runs 13s at 118mph! So my new 406 made almost 420hp and 480 Ftlb. Hope I can squeek a 12.90 out of it with 3.90s. I'm getting closer to 40 and had to assure my wife the goat won't do that !

[mnfatcat]

I'm thinking that a 450 to 500 hp motor is relatively easy and affordable to build, and is still amenable to AC and PB. There may be the occasional big dog that will eat your lunch, there is always a faster car. I pick my encounters with a certain degree of discretion, if I get my ass handed to me, I live with it.

[AdamIsAdam]

mnfatcat,
You have a nice looking setup based on your signature. One spec not on your Sig is race weight. Just how fat is that cat?

[PontGuy]

I already gave the "sits in the garage" answer (been there) and the "wife/girlfriend" answer (been there too). Here's one that is more to the point but not nearly as much fun.

Honestly I think that once you get past the 400-500 HP range in a street car its all about bragging rights. Nothing wrong with bragging rights, but for a 0-60 MPH blast traction is the limiting factor. And unless you don't mind putting your license up for grabs that is the speed range we should be talking about for useful power in a street car.

From a standing start, how many here running a healthy 455 with a stock-style suspension and street tires on a typical road surface can get all the way into the secondaries without a long roll-out and tickling into them? Not me. And my Lemans is at the bottom of that power range. OK, so I could re-cam, port heads, etc. and move the torque curve up which would soften the bottom a bit, extend the RPM range and add some usable HP up higher. And end up toward the top of the 400-500 HP range. And the tires would probably hold good enough to see a real street performance benefit. Beyond that HP level though, just don't see it happening.

Bragging rights, exhilaration factor, and drag strip performance (and maybe street racing) are different things entirely.

[mnfatcat]

Adam, thx for the compliment on the car. Only ever been at the track one time and the scales were not open so I don't know exactly what it weighs. By comparison, I had a 427/425 68 Chev Biscayne and I think it weighed 4050 without a driver. The cars are nearly identical, the entire roofline is Chev, the windshield and back window are the same part number, and I think the door and quarter windows are also.

[AdamIsAdam]

Thanks. I can't wait to hit the track myself, and the dyno for that matter.

[67GTO4SPEED]

Originally Posted by mnfatcat

Adam, thx for the compliment on the car. Only ever been at the track one time and the scales were not open so I don't know exactly what it weighs. By comparison, I had a 427/425 68 Chev Biscayne and I think it weighed 4050 without a driver. The cars are nearly identical, the entire roofline is Chev, the windshield and back window are the same part number, and I think the door and quarter windows are also.

I had a '68 Grand Prix with a XH code 350 HP 400 and TH400 that weighed a touch over 4100#. It was my first Poncho. It had A/C, console, buckets, and power windows. I would imagine than the Cat might be slightly lighter being that the GP had the hideway headlights and the fast back style rearend. The rear bumper of the GP is defintely bigger and heavier than the Cat also.