[FrankieT/A]

Just curious, what is the wind up as far as cam choices? Can a readily available Pontiac roller cam able to be used with this set up? Or, do we need custom cams with smaller base circles or certain lobe profiles etc.? I know I saw a couple posts talking about this. Do the oil bands stay in the right zone within a certain lift? The design looks great!

Stan can you please address these concerns.

Thank you in advance.

[Stan65]

FrankieTA,

I will post a picture again of what I measured on my 73 455 block with my cam, and a copy of my cam card.

I do not believe a custom base circle is necessary unless your block has excessive chamfers cut on the top of the lifter bores.

Some have suggested using a Howard’s lifter to replace the Sealed Power HT-2148 I designed these for. If the Howard’s lifter has a narrower soil band that is lower and the oil feed hole is located so that it will get oil 100% of the time, it may change the limitations on lift.

Every block is a little different, as is every cam.

Hope this helps. If I can answer anything else or this wasn’t enough, let me know.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[zippy]

What I'm thinking. The Mega Lifter Bore Brace is epoxied in place and sandwiched between the bores. If the design of that, incorporated a threaded hole between the bores. Then bolt be installed down, into the Mega Brace, ensuring non movement. Would require more parts and collaboration but.

[Stan65]

Zippy,

I see no reason at all that wouldn’t work.

The only thing the lifters won’t work with a big lift cam, so I see no need for the lifter brace.

Stan

[Stan65]

Another update…

Have been looking for a replacement for the HT 2148 lifter as the supply is definitely dwindling.

I reached out to Howard’s and and ordered one of the 91174 lifters. These lifters are made by Gaterman for Howard’s.

I have seen some people claim they are noisy and are a variable duration lifter like a Rhoads lifter. After discussing with Howard‘s, they told me that an early misprint years ago has haunted them for years and these are NOT variable duration. After comparing dimensions. The oil feed hole being lower on the body will help with the oil hole raising above the lifter bore at full lift, but will require opening the block oil feed hole in the block to lower it a bit in smaller base circle cans. The modification is easy to do with block completely disassembled (to clean the chips afterwards).

The Howard’s lifters also have pressurized roller oiling.

The picture with 2 lifters, the Howard’s 91174 on the left and Sealed Power HT-2148 on the right.

The picture with the single shows the roller oil feed hole.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[ponchjoe]

What about the High Lift Johnson’s in this scenario? Has anyone compared them?

[Green Elephant]

Stan, where did you find the Gaterman lifters? I purchased a set of of the Howards 91174 lifters, (which were supposed to be Gaterman’s but these weren’t) so I returned them. I even called the owner of Gaterman Machine to speak with him and verify what I was looking at. I’ve got a picture of the LS lifter shown on their website. The Gaterman’s can be determined by the window on either side of the axle, and it appears as if they have 3 or 4 oil feed holes as well.
I was able to find one set of the Sealed Power lifters so I’m covered, but I would like to have a set of Gaterman’s as well.

[Stan65]

Green Elephant,

The one in my picture is a Howard’s lifter. I bought it from Summit. Part number 91174. The picture of the set of 16 on Summit’s website is incorrect.

If you search for 91174-1 it shows the correct picture . It is a single.

I was told Gaterman provides the lifter to Howard’s.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[Green Elephant]

Originally Posted by Stan65

Green Elephant,

The one in my picture is a Howard’s lifter. I bought it from Summit. Part number 91174. The picture of the set of 16 on Summit’s website is incorrect.

If you search for 91174-1 it shows the correct picture . It is a single.

I was told Gaterman provides the lifter to Howard’s.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

Thanks for the information Stan, appreciate it.

[Jay S]

I don’t think you would ever have a reason to modify the oil feed in the block for the Gaterman made lifter (Howard’s 91174) That design will be easier on the lifter bores, more flexible for more cams options (better positioned oil band), and more or less superior to a 2148 on everything except the price. My only complaint about them would be they are made off shore.

[Stan65]

Jay S,

For “My 1973 455 Block” with “My cam’s base circle” the block oil feed galleys would need lowered about 1/8”.

When the lifter is on the base circle, the oil band for the Howard’s 91174 (Gaterman gl1012) drop below the oil feed galleys. The lifter oil feed holes are at the top of the oil band. The Sealed Power HT-2148 lifters have the oil feed hole above the band making it higher on the lifter body. (You must install the lifter with the oil feed hole aligned with the oil galley.

If your block has generous chamfers on the top of the lifter bores that cause the lifter feed hole to rise above the bore, the Howard’s lifter would solve that problem. You would then only have to worry about the oil band dropping below the lifter bore on the base circle.

You should be able to see the oil feed hole and galley for the Sealed Power lifter in my drawing below. I also included a picture of the Howard’s (left) and Sealed Power (right) lifters

Hope this all makes sense.

Thanks again,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[Jay S]

Several OEM engines do not have a full window to feed the lifter thru the entire travel. You can widen the feed if you want, but it shouldn’t be necessary with lifters that have controlled bleed rates like these.

[Stan65]

Jay S,

Do you know at what part of the travel the feed hole is blocked? Base circle or at lift?

I would speculate that having it blocked on the base circle would be the best case scenario.

Stan

[Schurkey]

If it's blocked on the base circle, how does the lower chamber of the lifter fill with oil? Once the lifter is under pressure from the valve spring, there's no oil being pumped down there.

[Stan65]

Schurky,

That was my thoughts also. That is why I recommended lowering the feed hole a touch. Super easy with a carbide burr.

Thanks,
Stan

[Jay S]

I was assuming the oil hole is not getting completely block off, just misaligned.

[Stan65]

Jay S,

In my application, the oil galley would be 100% blocked off with the Howard’s/Gaterman lifters while on the base circle.

Thanks,
Stuart “Stan” Landreth

[Jay S]

That was my miss understanding, you do not want the feed completely blocked .


I had an issue with an engine that had oil pressure problem once that was intermittent with this style of drop on lifter. It thought for sure it was an electrical glitch. The oil pressure would drop to zero, the engine never would make any extra valve terrain or engine noise. When I would shut it off and start it up the issue would stop, oil pressure would go to normal. I rode in it, drove it, and was just baffled. Sometime it would go 10 miles with zero oil pressure. Turned out the oil filter collapsed, it would register zero oil pressure when it acted up... Apparently this style lifter does not need much oil pressure to work. You sure couldn’t do that with most retrofit set ups, it would immediately be clattering.

[Flingwing]

Has anyone used these? Gaterman Retrofit Roller Lifters for Pontiac GP1008 https://www.gatermanproducts.com/pontiacolds-v8.html
https://www.gatermanproducts.com/pontiacolds-v8.html

[gtobob67]

Been going down this road for a while now. Noisy hydraulic roller lifters. I tried fitting that Ford spider with the HT-2148 lifters and wasn't at all comfortable with it. Spider in the trash, lifters on the shelf. Ended up going the hybrid route on my Lunati 231-239, .535, .550 Cam. Not ideal, but it seemed to work. Saw here the lifter bones Stan is making. Bought a set and installed them along with the Sealed Power HT-2148 lifters. They fit perfect. Fired it up today. Lifters were a bit noisy for a minute or two then quieted right down. Ran it until fully warmed up varying the RPM up to about 2500. Engine was very quiet when I shut it down. I'm confident this is a much better set-up than that Ford Spider deal and now I have hydraulic lifters on a hydraulic cam.