[Brian Baker]

Dancolkate has a point. There have been things that were posted in the lobby that the moderators moved over here...that probably had no business being moved here, and should have stayed in the lobby. And now the lobby thread has been shut down, with all of the posts deemed pertinent by the moderators moved here.

I'm trying to stay out of this, other than to relate my own personal dealings with Ray, and to relate our phone conversation this morning.

I will ask Ray one question though. It's been roughly 6 hours since we spoke this morning...why haven't you delivered the trailer full of parts and the welder back to her yet like I told you needed to be done asap?

[Pitch 400]

Well, I'll state my position here. What Ponchoshop said was all true concerning my Goat. Ray did call from my house about the Goat. Mike was interested in it before he seen it. I did tell ray that he had first dibs on it. I talked to Mike this morning and he said he was buying it. So I'll find out this week if he comes through. I talked to Darcie the other night and she was upset with Ray. I told her that I only knew of his reputation by what people were saying about him while he was helping her out. That's why I trusted him to take the car back with him. Concerning my deal with him, I began to wonder about the deal a couple of weeks ago. I guess his reputation precedes him, which I did'nt know about. We have been keeping in touch 3-4 times a week since this whole deal started. One thing that did hold things up a week was I won the auction and sent deposit that night and was in the hospital the next night for 7 days and could'nt call until a friend of mine called Ray about 4 days later telling Ray what was going on. The thing that could have prevented the deal with my car is if Ray could have come up with the money or peddled it for a profit. As far as his dealings with other people, maybe this thread will get some mileage with Ray. I would'nt have expected Darcie to wait a month for payment on the TA. Can't have fun until the bills are paid.

[Pitch 400]

Four other posts were put up since I started the last one

[dyingbreed]

I will take some of the responsibility if anyone's posts are missing. However, they were not deleted persay. There was a topic about this in the Lobby and another in the Entities Excange section. I merged both topics into one and it was then placed in the where it belongs- the Entities Exchange section, with a redirect left in the Lobby.

I then went through the entire topic and deleted duplicate posts/replies only. All of the replies from both threads are added together when two topics are merged, thus creating duplicate posts. If anyone lost a post through my actions, it WAS NOT intentional. You may repost your replies, but any personal attacks, insults and/or threats WILL NOT be tolerated!!!

I'm sincerely sorry for the inconvenience- I know this is a genuine concern for some of our members!

db

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I think it has all been appropriate, according and due - on Darcie's part.

OBVIOUSLY the email/phone call/pm methods produced minimum motivation.

When situations at hand are left to ferment, they only produce more stench - with even less of the desired results having possibility.

Ray thought he could handle this duty and gave efforts. It hasn't worked out to anyones satisfaction and he now has plenty excuse and reason to bail out of the mission. It appears he is realizing this himself and is employing his directives towards proper and direct resolvements. Have no doubt this public broadcast keyed these actions.

This thread has worked for a better good towards both sides of the involvement. No one had to be sued or slaughtered. Ray can throw in the towel and walk away a better man than he was yesterday, after he unloads. Have to think that's the best result in the end. If more of the issues brought to light in this forum were tasked as rapidly as this one, we could all have more and deserved respect for each other.

I commend the mods for allowing this to Darcie. I commend Ray for doing what seems to be right, and right now. It may have been slow coming, but looks like it is coming with a proper priority being given at this time.

He could have chosen to stay loyal to No Pay Ray, as he has already been tattoo'ed.
At least now he won't be continually cattle branded on a daily basis.

Sincerely with Regards.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

And...

If this thread reaches into 10,000-14,000 posts like the MR1 issue, I'm sure some posting restrictions will be instituted here just as well.

[dancolkate]

I respect your opinion and agree for Darcies sake that it's great that things are "getting done".

BUT this forum should NOT be used in an effort to gang up on someone with a specific result being the goal. That is not our place as individuals and it's just plain wrong.

This whole thing was used to "call someone out" by accusing them, threateneing them, or personally attacking them. All of which took place here and even though the accusations are likely true, IMO it is very inapropriate to handle it this way. Read back through em'.

I've been told this is for "first hand" accounts and "factual information" without the conjecture and personal attacks. Read back through em'.

D

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I think it has all been appropriate, according and due - on Darcie's part.

OBVIOUSLY the email/phone call/pm methods produced minimum motivation.

When situations at hand are left to ferment, they only produce more stench - with even less of the desired results having possibility.

Ray thought he could handle this duty and gave efforts. It hasn't worked out to anyones satisfaction and he now has plenty excuse and reason to bail out of the mission. It appears he is realizing this himself and is employing his directives towards proper and direct resolvements. Have no doubt this public broadcast keyed these actions.

This thread has worked for a better good towards both sides of the involvement. No one had to be sued or slaughtered. Ray can throw in the towel and walk away a better man than he was yesterday, after he unloads. Have to think that's the best result in the end. If more of the issues brought to light in this forum were tasked as rapidly as this one, we could all have more and deserved respect for each other.

I commend the mods for allowing this to Darcie. I commend Ray for doing what seems to be right, and right now. It may have been slow coming, but looks like it is coming with a proper priority being given at this time.

He could have chosen to stay loyal to No Pay Ray, as he has already been tattoo'ed.
At least now he won't be continually cattle branded on a daily basis.

Sincerely with Regards.

[herdswoman]

Once again, I'll reiterate that options were presented.

For those who say it this is not the right method of resolution, well, it's not the right resolution for you. I could even say it's not the right method for me. But it is the right solution for Darcie, and that is what matters now.

Darcie feels that Larry has been used, and she is right. She is angry - beyond angry. Ray has had many chances over months to get himself out of this and pay the money back. His long term pattern of behavior has come to a new low, and finally - one hopes - an end. It's been her loss, so it is her call. She has no other family to turn to. I've got her back, and so do several others. When Larry died, I told her that if she ever needed anything, I'd be there. I didn't say I'd be there "only if I approve of your method of resolution" or "only if I think it's the right thing to do". I'm keeping my promise to my friend: she needs something, I'm there. End of story.

Certainly it is much better for all when a civil, polite post is put in the Business section.

But then, this wasn't a civil, polite matter.

Agreed, Baron von Zepplin, it seems to over, provided that all other items are returned as promised.

Darcie, will you let us know that all is well and delivered as promised? It also looks like you have a line on selling the welder now. :)

PS Don't call me Ray. She needed me, I kept a promise. End of story. Make sure you make good.

[ponjohn]

I find it interesting that Ray was right there cutting .001 lights on replies on the mr1 thread but nothing here.

This place is going down the toilet. I'm sorry...this is the way it feels over the last month. No intention of being negative - just my feelings.

[firebirdcrazy1959]

herdswoman is 100% right and this should be the end if all is returned.

[dancolkate]

Herdswoman,
How far would you go for a friend? Based on your previous writings, you've already given up your own morals and values in this thread. Lowering yourself to this level does your friends no service.....I think you know that.

The way people conduct themselves on here and then try to justify their actions is disturbing to me. As my parting post, I'd like to share with you quotes from this thread that truley ashamed me.

Ladydude;
"he is a friend to no one but himself....don't let that smiley facade fool you.....he is a user."

Oh and Ray that Dude Scoop looks real good on your car................................NOT!

Herdswoman;
-And when a snake is in their midst, they kill it. At the very least, they throw it so far away that it will never approach again.

-And who knows how many other tools and parts that were taken from Larry's garage by his "best friend"?

-Your reputation - what is left of it - will be ruined. And since you've lost the listing on the Davis house, broken contract and all...well, that will have to be dealt with too, won't it?

-don't force darcie to take legal action, you think this's bad?wait until it hits the papers or you get served a subpeona at work.

Mike Nixon;
-make good on the car you took from the other forum member without paying for it.

JohnTA1:
-If ever there was a time for a lynch mob, it is now.
Ray, you need to correct this, and now.

Pontiacdude;
-Ray, Have heard the whole story ..... You truly have reached a NEW low. Lower then I thought you could already go.

LILjack;
-I honestly didn't think you could stoop this low!

-You should pay off ALL your debt to others before you go racing Ray! And if that means selling your "racecar" so be it!!!

-Unbelievable!!! POS

And it goes on and on. Enough to make anyone proud.

[zippy]

Why is everyone waitng till now to come out and say that RAy is no good????

Why didn't anyone speak up BEFORE Ray took the initiative to "help Out" If all you people "KNew He was a cheater" for the past 3 years now. WHy sit back and let him cheat a widow????? Comon, there has to be a reason? WHy now, that someone else has started this topic, does everyone have the ba!!s to stand up. Why not before? Is everone afraid of getting a vacation if they happen to speak the truth????? I have seen it happen here a million times. Even more so as of late. Someone speaks the TRUTH about someone here, and if it hapens to be not what someone of power wants to hear/belive. Alot of times the post starter gets a vacation.
Now, I'm not talking about blatanty bashing someone here, but if you know someone's a crook, for gods sake, don't sit idly by and watch people get screwed, THEN come and ***** when somone makes a complaint..................


I'm off my soapbox now

[Lady Dude]

Dancolekate...did it ever occur to you that none of us knew what was going on behind the scenes with Darcie and Ray? We live in Florida and had no knowledge of the situation. Or the extent of his dealings with other people...sometimes and takes something like this to bring out awareness of an issue.
Sometimes ya gotta grab the bull by the horns and see how far you can toss him. Even when Ray was slamming my husband(Pontiac Dude) up here on the boards I kept quiet, and that's a pretty hard thing to do if you're me. Sorry we don't all see eye to eye on this one but there are many different people up here from many walks of life....and we are all blessed with living in a country where there is still freedom of speech.
Now, let me ask you this...what if you had business dealings with someone and got burned...wouldn't you be a little bit upset that nobody warned you about that person? Hmmmmmmm....puts a little bit different spin on things doesn't it?
Tom...I agree...he needs to make things right so we can all put this behind us.
Ray...I thought you were a pretty decent guy when we met you. We shared some good times and friendship. Where did that all go?

[fastgto]

This whole topic is SAD. I will not comment on it.

[dancolkate]

I get burned on occation just like everyone else. Either someone lies, or cheats, or stabs you in the back....it happens to everyone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reality.

How you act (or react) in those situations, is what determines the type of person that you are. The quotes in my previous post speak for themselves.

Next time, try taking the high road. It's amazing how much better you feel about yourself when you do.

Originally Posted by Lady Dude

Dancolekate...did it ever occur to you that none of us knew what was going on behind the scenes with Darcie and Ray? We live in Florida and had no knowledge of the situation.
Sometimes ya gotta grab the bull by the horns and see how far you can toss him. Even when Ray was slamming my husband(Pontiac Dude) up here on the boards I kept quiet, and that's a pretty hard thing to do if you're me.
Now, let me ask you this...what if you had business dealings with someone and got burned...wouldn't you be a little bit upset that nobody warned you about that person? Hmmmmmmm....puts a little bit different spin on things doesn't it?
Tom...I agree...he needs to make things right so we can all put this behind us.
Ray...I thought you were a pretty decent guy when we met you. We shared some good times and friendship. Where did that all go?

[Brian Baker]

Dancolkate and Zippy...I'll try to answer some of your questions without answering for anyone or putting words in others mouths.

Some of the people that are posting know Ray and Darcie personally, and knew Darcie's husband, Larry Davis, personally. They have a better grasp on the situation, knowing both people, and knowing and hearing and speaking about what has been, or hasn't been going on behind the scenes, out of the public eye of this board. Sometimes things boil to a head, and it spills out publicly on the board. This board has been used from time to time to air out grievances. This incident, and the MR1 block incidents have not been the first. The general consensus is, when a grievance is not being rectified to one sides satisfaction, that side will come here and publicly shame the other side into doing the right thing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...most times it gets ugly.

Ray and Larry were friends...or at the very least "car buddies" (some of you may understand the difference in what I mean). In 2003, I had met both of these guys at the same time for the first time, at Norwalk. They both were of great help to me when I was going rounds on Saturday that year, getting down to just 6 cars left (including myself) before losing. We all had a great time that year. Ray hadn't earned a questionable reputation yet. I also met Darcie that year, although I didn't get to speak with her as much as I did with Larry and Ray.

As I got to know each of them, it was evident that for "car buddies", they were like Felix and Oscar from The Odd Couple. A few years later and Ray had developed a questionable reputation for being a "slow payer" or in some instances "no payer", but Larry still kept Ray around at least as a "car buddy".

The evening of Larry's untimely death, Ray was on the phone to me within hours of getting the bad news of the accident (as I'm sure he was to many others that were close to Larry). When I first heard from him, nobody was 100% certain about Larry's condition yet. So when it was known Larry was gone, Ray stepped in to help Darcie. It only seemed fitting at the time, after all, they were at the very least "car buddies".

The rest of us in the Pontiac community were hurting. Hell...my heart still aches and I get a lump in my throat anytime I think about Larry for any length of time. I think everyone was allowing Ray, in spite of his developing "no pay" reputation, to do right by Larry. I can't tell you how many people told me personally that, in spite of their poor view of Ray, how they thought it was a mighty big thing he was doing at the time of Larry's death and funeral. I think it's unfair for someone to come on here, and not knowing Ray, or Larry, or any of the other folks that have spoken out, and chastise for allowing Ray to step in and help when Darcie was in a time of need. Perhaps we were all giving Ray a second chance to prove himself?

My mind is rambling now, I can tell because I'm having trouble putting thoughts to keys. I don't know all of the facts that have gone down between Darcie and Ray since Larry's funueral, but I do know that there are some very good people here that didn't think too highly of Ray prior to Larry's death, and were willing to give Ray a second chance at showing he had some goodness in him.

I do know that Darcie feels maligned, and at the very least, Ray should have gotten that trailer of unsold parts along with the welder over to her today to try and make things right for Darcie. Did you get that done, Ray? I hope so.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote by Dave:

"just like zippy said...you all sit hear and scream about how terrible Ray Cox is and he is nothing but a loser, user, thief, and crook...where were you all after Larry died? Why didn't anybody else step up to help out Darcie?"

I will tell you where Amy Richcreek, Mike Nixon, Dave Holmberg, Mike Wachter, Scott Misus, and Ray Cox were. Standing next to me at Larry's funeral.

Dancolkate, you were not there to watch your friend go into the ground, I was, so you can take your "High Road" bs and cram it up you ***.

Like I said, I was proud of Ray at the funeral but you can't change a cat's stripes. Ray needs to get this latest screw-up behind him and then we can get back to the MR-1 BS.

JMO

Tom V.

ps If you weren't there, your opinion don't mean Chit, (in war or civilian life).

[6567GTO]

you people are a joke and make me sick...

you sit here so smug and know all...

give me a break...

Wow, sounds like you know how to talk sh!t just as much as anyone. Practice what you preach. Some people get upset when people burn others for money, some get upset when people talk sh!t about people, like you. I think if you were burned for thousands of dollars you'd be upset too.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Dave Wanichek

just like zippy said...you all sit hear and scream about how terrible Ray Cox is and he is nothing but a loser, user, thief, and crook...where were you all after Larry died? Why didn't anybody else step up to help out Darcie? Especially after Ray took it upon himself to sell Larrys car...all you that are bashing him dont have an Ebay account and couldnt list it for her? Nobody else here could have sold his tools ect...

Dave, others did offer help. A few drove from great distances to be at Larry's funeral. I even offered to post the pictures and put the car up on EBAY on my own account, when Ray was dragging his feet to get it done for Darcie. But in the end, it was ultimately Darcie's decision, and with Ray living in the same town, it was more convenient than for someone from hundreds of miles away to help.

Originally Posted by Dave Wanicheck

And then there are the nicknames..."No Pay Ray" "Slow Pay Ray" you all say you knew how he was for years...but yet nobody bothered to tell Darcie this?? but now you all claim to be her best friend and "we're her for you" blah blah blah...

It was Larry Davis himself that coined the phrase "No Pay Ray".

Originally Posted by Dave Wanicheck

I think it is down right disturbing and childish the way you people are carrying on...I dont know any of the people involved but reading posts by other members really show me what kind of people they are...

And there you are...you don't know anyone involved, yet you're quick to judge...which is the same thing you're complaining about others doing.

[Brian Baker]

Mods...leave by post in reply to Dave alone please.