[LeighP]

Thats an awful thing to do to someone...abuse the trust placed in you by a widow. The author Charles Dickens wrote something appropriate...
Charles Dickens, dated 1837: “I look upon you, sir, as a man who has placed himself beyond the pale of society, by his most audacious, disgraceful, and abominable public conduct”.
Kinda covers it all right there, doesn't it?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Dillion and others. You have no clue the Bullsh!t Ray has pulled on others here. This is just the tip of the Iceberg.

You really think that Brad posting deal didn't have alterior motives? ;)


Forget the dozens of others he owes over the past 3 years!!!!!!!

But when it comes to trying to defraud a Widow out of money she needs to try and live with a void in her life.............. She is not talking as if this has just happened. She has been trying to get it handled for quite a while. Bad when she has to constantly try and contact you to get what is rightfully her's to begin with and only after she has to take extreme measures on a Public forum.

Ray, Have heard the whole story ..... You truly have reached a NEW low. Lower then I thought you could already go.

Hope another out there currently dealing with Ray gets it straighten out before he also gets taken. He's too nice a guy to be sucked into Ray SH!T.
Been there and done that.

What goes around............. finally comes around. :(

Misus might have called this one on the head way back.

[Brian Baker]

Wow!:(

Let me start my ball rolling by saying that I am in agreement with Amy and many other opinions stated here...but that a part of me is really miffed that you good people voicing these opinions, whom I've considered friends for many years, are so often judgemental of me for doing EXACTLY what you are doing right now. It brings a word to mind. Hmmmmm, let me think a minute...what's that word again? Oh yeah, now I remember...HYPOCRITE! But that's ok...Mongo has very broad shoulders, and knows he's doing the right thing when you good people are being so critical of his motives and actions.

Now about Ray...I've been getting phone calls from board members in the last week about Ray...I must say that I'm not surprised, however, I am sadly disappointed. I'll share my own experience with Ray, many of you already know it:

I purchased a set of used cylinder heads from Ray that were to be used on my funny car project. E-heads ported from Butler with all hardware and rockers and stud girdles, basically ready to be bolted on, but I was going to freshen them up. Ray had advertised them as 330-cfm (or Butlers "race" port). This was in the fall a couple of years ago. I send the money, $2200, and Ray is to have John Langer pick the heads up at a race and bring them home with him (to save on shipping). I thought I was getting a fair price, given that when adding up the cost to do these heads new, with the rockers and stud girdles, it would have cost just over $3000.

I drive to Langer's home in Philly, a little over a 2 hour drive for me, to get the heads. Heads are there, but no rockers or stud girdles. John says those weren't given to him. No problem, I'll have Ray ship them. I take a quick look at the heads, and the intake ports seem awful small. So I ask John, "Do they look like they've had a Butler race port done on them to you?" and John replied "No, in fact they don't look like they've been touched". I bring them home. They have Butler markings on them, so I know they at least came from Butler.

I call Ray and he says he has to pull the rockers and stud girdles out of his trailer. I say no problem, there's no rush. About 7 months go by and I get the other parts. Again, this is no problem for me, I'm in no hurry getting the engine together. I open the box, and I'm pissed. The stud girdles are the cheap, hollow bar stock variety that Fulper used to sell for $99 new, not even close to the quality Crane pieces like I had just sold off my d-ports. Two of the rockers were involved in a valvetrain failure, with the pushrod cup area beat up so badly it looked like someone had worked them over with a Dremel tool with a cutting bit. All of the roller bearing trunions were rough, and the rocker nuts were missing. I go through the box, no rocker nuts! I look further and notice too that half of the mouting hardware for the stud girdles is missing as well.

I call Butler to find out more about the heads. David confirms that they worked on them, but they're not a race port, they're the 300-cfm port that they advertise for $2200 ready to bolt on, and mine flowed 307-cfm at .700" lift. In other words, all they had done to them was a bowl clean up. Definately not what Ray had advertised.

I call Ray and explain my findings. He's receptive and we try to hash out a resolution. In short, I tell him I'm willing to keep the heads, but that the rockers and girdles are junk and I can't use them. I say I want to send those pieces back in exchange for $400 of my money back, since the heads are not as advertised. I thought $1800 for a used set of E-heads was a little steep on my end, but not a rip-off. Ray balked, stating he couldn't let them go that cheaply. I then tell him he can take everything back, and I want a full refund, plus shipping, to which he readily agreed.

So there I was, 7 months later, Ray's had my money all that time. He sends me a check for $2250 within two weeks, and I shipped the heads back UPS. Shipping ended up costing a little more, once everything was packaged up, but that was no big deal. I was more upset that I waisted a tank of gas and a whole Saturday driving to and from Langer's home to get the heads. I was also upset that someone I thought of as a friend in the Pontiac community, someone I had helped at Norwalk with his car, and who had helped me at Norwalk in 2003 with my car, would try to pull a scam on me like that. In regards to the junk rockers and girdles, Scott Misus summed it up to me this way...look at Ray's car, Brian...it's very possible that in Ray's mind, those parts were usable, when the rest of us would throw them away as junk...maybe he wasn't pulling a scam? Well, that would explain the junk rockers/girdles, but not the misrepresenting of the heads. I understand Ray sold those heads and parts to his friend Mike, who also frequents this board. I haven't heard any public complaints, so I assume Mike was happy with them.

I can't fault Ray too much on that deal, after all I did get my money back in a timely manner (2 weeks). I can fault him for misrepresenting the heads and parts however. I just chalked it up to experience. He's had similar dealings with others from the board, Ken "Pontiacdude" Keefer, Jack "Lil Jack" Pumphrey, Bob Cacciotti...owing money all the while out racing his car. I know about owing money...I still owe some very good people from this board money for parts that have been sent for the funny car. It's not anyone's business but mine and the parties involved, of course, but I'm not ashamed to admit it publicly, as I believe there is a difference in the money that I owe, and the money that Ray owes. I'm not crying poor mouth while simulataneously dragging my car out to races trying to win some money. That's the difference.

Ray's going to get hit over the head enough from Amy, and rightly so. For that reason, I won't pile on at this time, except to say that I am really ashamed of you Ray for taking advantage of someone in Darcie's situation. Never mind her status as a widow...she's the widow of a man who was a very good friend to you.

[Brian Baker]

For the fellow that let Ray take his GTO home with him...title in hand...without taking any money from Ray in return...you're f@$ked. The only hope you have on that deal now is if you did not sign the title. If you did, you may as well kiss that car goodbye, becaue legally, there's not a thing you can do about it.

[LiL Jack]

Holy Chit!!! Ray I knew you were a little slow on paying people and owed alot of people some money. But not giving the money you owe Darcie from parts sold and the $500 paypal deposit from Larry's car is unspeakable.

I honestly didn't think you could stoop this low!

You should pay off ALL your debt to others before you go racing Ray! And if that means selling your "racecar" so be it!!!

Unbelievable!!! POS

[herdswoman]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

I cant believe what Im reading. Even though all parties involved are members of this forum, It doesnt feel like this is the place to air the greivences.

Please, for the sake of the integrity of this forum and its members, discontinue posting in this thread.

For the sake of the integrity of the forum and its members - its right where it belongs.

Darcie is the widow of Larry Davis. Have you forgotten who that man was - and the kind of values he stands for? This involves his Pontiac, his Pontiac parts, the donations from this board, money that has been owed her. She has nowhere else to turn. She has gone to Ray repeatedly on her own - even went over there with her youngest son who is the only family she has at her side. She has no other recourse other than spending money she can't afford on lawyers. Her other three sons...the three oldest, will be home for Christmas. All four of those boys were raised by Larry and I'm sure they'll do him proud if this isn't settled by then.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the ground above his grave in New Castle doesn't have ridges and furrows over it.

Not only does it involve Larry's TransAm, but Pitch400 is the man who bought Larry's car. Since Ray was the guy who was helping so much, and the outpouring from the Pontiac community was so great, he trusted Ray to bring back his 68 GTO complete with title, without receiving full payment. Pitch, get in touch with Mike Nixon ASAP.

And our Pontiac community, which has a Business section just for such purposes, needs to stay informed and exposed to such dealings.

[LiL Jack]

Like Brian said, Pitch 400 your F***ed!

[Chris Roach]

Holy chit is right!

After what has unfolder over the last few weeks, what the hell is happening to the Pontiac brotherhood?

[6567GTO]

Man oh man. Darcie - I'm really sorry to hear this. Good for you to let us know about it.
Ray, you are truly a sick man. Get your sh!t together and fix things ASAP. No B.S. stories, just actions. That's how a man is judged, by his actions.
And right now, you're not looking good at all.

After what has unfolder over the last few weeks, what the hell is happening to the Pontiac brotherhood?

Chris, there's plenty of good people here on the board still. It's just that the bad ones are floating to the top lately. We need to get a spoon and skim them off every now and then.

[Ray Cox]

Ill respond to this later tonight when I can but in the mean time while you are all thinking bad, remember nobody sent a check to me that was made out to me they were all checke or money orders made out to Darcie
and Im sure pitch will post on here about the car as well.

[LiL Jack]

Ray, I hope all of this is a "misunderstanding" and you can resolve all of this in a timely fashion.

[Blackcat]

Let's say that
The waiting needs to be over.
If you want any respect from the community.
I suggest Getting your ducks in a row and this taken care of Ray.
To me it looks worse than grave robbing.

[GreysonWinfieldEsq]

Still doesn't explain the welder deal and it doesn't change the fact that with everything she's been thru that as a "friend" helping out you should have her interests 1st.

[crazy ray]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Ray, I hope all of this is a "misunderstanding" and you can resolve all of this in a timely fashion.

Best response so far.

[75cancup]

Ray i don't know you , but i have read enough about you to form my own opinion about you. You must be very proud of yourself right now being called out by a friends(?) widow .
I see your online but you need to wait till tonight..... hhmmm must be getting the BS meter warmed up.
Like others have said POS

[herdswoman]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

greyson, that exact story came from darcie's lips to my ears in a phone conversation this afternoon. i'll accept it as the truth, the woman just wants her stuff back.

mike

Greyson, same here. Darcie and I were on the phone for over an hour.

You've seen me talk a little smack, and hopefully you've seen me help several people. You've never seen me be mean or want to take someone down.

Until now.

I hope rtzkd managed those donations from beginning to end and they never saw the black hole that is Ray Cox's Pay Pal account.

Ray, if we "are all thinking bad", it's because it IS bad. Or is it that the rest of the world is crazy and you are the only sane one?

Your track record speaks for itself.

Do you know what the worst is, Ray?
It's not the cheating, the excuses, the delaying or the lying.

YOU MADE DARCIE FEEL ALONE, ABANDONED AND MISS HER DEAD HUSBAND MORE THAN EVER.

You ripped those scabs off those wounds. You've hurt her and made her cry more than once. You've provoked her until she felt she had no recourse - except to come to the family where she felt there was some integrity, where people came to her when she was in need without getting in her business.

And when the men she turned to felt that the male chromosomes might needed to be balanced out with female help, they called me. I called her. Several strageties were laid out and she chose the path she wanted to go down.

Looks like she's doin' Larry proud.

It's all firsthand information. All fact. I have never lied to anyone on this board, never self-promoted, never had my own agenda. My record speaks for itself as well.

[63HO3x2Cat421]

Wow, i can hardly believe what i've read in this thread. I'm new here and don't know anyone personally, but the evidence seems overwhelming that there's a jackal in our midst. To deliberately steal or take advantage of someone, especially those who'd trust your word in their time of grief, is despicable. And from the sounds of things this isn't the first time this Ray's integrity has been questioned.

This is truly a shame considering the vast majority of the pontiac people i've met (online) here are extremely generous and helpful to complete strangers like myself when it comes to sharing knowledge and advice.

Like an earlier poster said, what goes around eventually comes around. In the meanwhile i suggest to Ray that you slink back to whatever rock you crawled out from under and remain there.

[Region Warrior]

Hate when this **** happens. I must be in the dark...again.

Darcy, i will post what facts i know.
If thier not true, pm me, and i will go pound sand in Ray's ass!

He called me many times asking how much were Larry's car, truck, compressor, welder, tools, etc, were worth, and what be the best way to get top $ fast since you had a house and two car payments due.
I told him the last thing to do is have a garage sale cause all the vultures would swoop down and pick you clean.

He had me come over to look at some tools in the barn to discuss what they would be worth.
Turned out they were already gone(missing according to Ray) along with the tool box from Larry's truck, and some tools out of the Garage.
I have been to Ray's and in his trailer. Other then the welder, i have seen nothing of Larry's.

Now about the other car. If anything is false, Pitch400 will have to post.
Pitch payed Ray to deliver the TA.
Ray called me while he was there to ask if i or anyone near us would be interested in a fairly clean 68 GTO.
I said hell ya, i've been passing on 68-9's for 20 some years. Bring it back, and if it needs more work then i want to deal with, we'l find a buyer.
Well, Ray being the Pontiac car whore he is(arnt we all), decided to keep it and sell his 67FB convertible instead.
The GTO is in my backyard. I'm looking straight out at it as i type, and have the $ in hand in case Pitch needs to sell it now. But Ray has 1st dibb's.
So i can say he's not try'n to make a profit on it.

[DAV137]

I did not mean for everyone to get so involved in this to the point that people doubt me. The bottom line is that Ray has held money that was mine that I finally had to get nasty over to get it back. He has sold parts of Larry's without letting me know they sold or lied to me about a particular part which in that I have not received money for. He was very good about getting me the money from all the donations. If that wasn't the case, I would of never thanked everyone on the post for all their help. My problem is that I do not want Ray to use the memory or integrity of my husband Larry Davis to try to make people believe that he is so genuine. This situation has hurt me a great deal and this was very painful for me to even post. I have been dealing with this for a long time now and I am trying to figure it out the easiest way for all involved without hurting or embaressing anyone. But I got to the point that I felt Ray did not really care about what was going on, he blew me off to many times and would not honor his word. Your word needs to mean something. And so in that, I will be ending my ties with him, taking the parts back that he has and eliminating the problem. But the fact remains that I will not let Larry down on this. That is the only, and I strongly say "only" reason I even put the post on. It sounds to me like others have some very strong opinions about Ray that they now feel justified to voice. That is not any of my doing. So please all just calm down and try to understand why I did this. For none of you are in my shoes right now, so don't try to say you know how I feel. I hope Ray knows how much I appreciate the help and support he gave me from the start. That is totally separate from what is going on now. Anything I have done or said has been totally honest and genuine. I just expected that back from a friend.

[Brian Baker]

Well, just got off the phone with Ray (he called me). Gave him the benefit of the doubt and listened. Not making any judgements for either side in this, but I did tell him this much:

1.) Darcie lost her husband, a man who was well liked on this board. No matter what Ray does, he's not going to "win the battle" on this deal. Her situation is pretty much beyond reproach.

2.) Ray's reputation of being "No Pay Ray" or "Slow Pay Ray" has preceded him, and it's not going to help his case.

3.) I advised him to do whatever he has to do today, to return to Darcie the trailer full of parts that he did not sell at Norwalk, along with the welder (or cash for the welder). This is the best (and only) good faith gesture he can do right now. He says he intends to do this today.

Ray says he is going to make a future post to document the transaction of Larry's car, to show that he did not intentionally withold any money from Darcie. Stay tuned.