[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"I know of two IAI splayed cap blocks with similar main saddle separation."

Doesn't surprise me Rob, as the KRE blocks were probably carbon copy versions of the IA-1 block minus the Carbon!

If there are truly some good MR-1 blocks out there from a different foundry with a different material and they meet the J-431 spec of over 200 Brinell, That would be great.

I am formerly from Missouri, "Show Me"

Tom V.

[johnta1]

Tom, you mean 'plus' the carbon? The more the percentage of carbon the softer the cast iron.

[Tom Vaught]

IA-1 blocks were very hard. (Minus the carbon).

Sorry for not making that more clear. I should have not mixed the two blocks in the same sentence.

"Cast iron usually refers to grey cast iron, but can mean any of a group of iron-based alloys containing more than 2% carbon (alloys with less carbon are carbon steel by definition). It is made by remelting pig iron, often along with substantial quantities of scrap iron and scrap steel, and taking various steps to remove undesirable contaminants such as phosphorus and sulfur. Carbon and silicon content are reduced to the desired levels, which may be anywhere from 2% to 3.5% for carbon and 1% to 3% for silicon depending on the application. Other elements are then added to the melt before the final form is produced by casting"

"Silicon is essential to making of grey cast iron as opposed to white cast iron. Silicon causes the carbon to rapidly come out of solution as graphite, leaving a matrix of relatively pure, soft iron. Weak bonding between planes of graphite lead to a high activation energy for growth in that direction, resulting in thin, round flakes. This structure has several useful properties.

The metal expands slightly on solidifying as the graphite precipitates, resulting in sharp castings. The graphite content also offers good corrosion resistance.

Graphite acts as a lubricant, improving wear resistance. The exceptionally high speed of sound in graphite gives cast iron a much higher thermal conductivity. Since ferrite is so different in this respect (having heavier atoms, bonded much less tightly) phonons tend to scatter at the interface between the two materials. In practical terms, this means that cast iron tends to “damp” mechanical vibrations (including sound), which can help machinery to run more smoothly.

All of the properties listed in the paragraph above EASE OF MACHINING (TAPPING HOLES?) of grey cast iron. The sharp edges of graphite flakes also tend to concentrate stress, allowing CRACKS TO FORM MORE EASILY, so that material can be removed much more efficiently.

Brad Spidel reported how easy it was to tap his blocks threads. The blocks in the pics all have cracking problems, Hum?

Easier initiation of cracks can be a drawback once an item is finished, however: grey cast iron has less tensile strength and shock resistance than steel. It is also difficult to weld.

Grey cast iron's high thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity are often exploited to make cast iron cookware (Frying Pans) and disc brake rotors.

"Malleable iron starts as a white iron casting, that is then heat treated at about 900 °C. Graphite separates out much more slowly in this case, so that surface tension has time to form it into spheroidal particles rather than flakes. Due to their lower aspect ratio, spheroids are relatively short and far from one another, and have a lower cross section vis-a-vis a propagating crack or phonon. They also have blunt boundaries, as opposed to flakes, which alleviates the STRESS CONCENTRATION PROBLEMS (CRACKING) faced by grey cast iron. In general, the properties of malleable cast iron are more like mild steel. There is a limit to how large a part can be cast in malleable iron, since it is made from white cast iron."

"A more recent development is nodular or ductile cast iron. Tiny amounts of magnesium or cerium added to these alloys slow down the growth of graphite precipitates by bonding to the edges of the graphite planes. Along with careful control of other elements and timing, this allows the carbon to separate as spheroidal particles as the material solidifies. The properties are similar to malleable iron but parts can be cast with larger sections."



Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Rob

Amazing how much I agree with HIS.

I know of two IAI splayed cap blocks with similar main saddle separation.

-Rob

WWW.ICTCengines.com

Would one of those blocks be the one that was in Mellott's car when he ripped all 5 mains out of it at Atco a coupla' years back? Have you ever considered that the reason in Mellott's case they were ripped out was because of the alky tuneup? Lean 'em out hard enough and that's what happens.

KRE had a 110 pump for sale on EBAY last year when I was thinking about buying a spare as a backup for the funny car. When I asked if they had any flow sheets for it, when it was last flowed, and what it actually flowed, their answer was "we don't have a flow sheet but this pump was pulled from a running combo". The bidding got up over $200...too much for a used 110 pump with no flow figures.

If there's one thing I've learned about running a blown alky combo, it's that you KNOW what your pump flows. You can't tune it based on what the advertised flow is (which is apparently what KRE and Mellott were doing with their cars). That's a sure fire way to lean it out hard and break parts...which they have, many times.

[Rob]

I think many of us are going to be competent in cast iron metalurgy before this is finished...I was pointing to the splayed design likely being better, but also not likely the sole cure in the occurance of a main saddle separation. This condition/occurance can be inside a engine running just fine on 4 mains which is definitely not a good thing.

I'm not an expert in Metalurgy, but do consider myself somewhat of an expert with racing engines. After the last three or so weeks of observations, phone calls, discussions, it still isn't completely known to me that a 131-160 brinell number is usafe(tho I am really leaning that way), but it can easily be agreed upon that a 207-225 brinell number is considered the correct ballpark for G3500 material. Spoke on the phone with Ray Cox last night, what he and several others just did for the Spidels cannot be overstated. The last few days have raised my concern level beyond waiting to know all the reasons.

Anyone racing a MR-1 should stop and do a brinell test/4th main saddle inspection before running again.

-Rob

WWW.ICTCengines.com

[Brad B. Hillebrand]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I firmly believe that they MAY NOT be all junk.

I was told that they had three different casting houses do work for them over the 70 block run.

There may very well be some very good blocks still out there.

It would be so nice if the Kauffmans would come forth, identify which blocks came from which source, etc so that a proper evaluation of all of the blocks could be obtained. Right now we have only the bad blocks in the picture. Perhaps there ARE some good ones out there.

The deal is we will never really know until the word get out, the owners are willing to inspect the blocks for hardness and internal damage, and the results are posted.

There is obviously some disagreement in the Kauffman camp on how to do the deal if one of the members has left the group.

Tom V.

This is exactly what I think they are trying to do, in addition why nothing has been said. They need to determine what blocks, what Foundry and what exactly occurred. Until they know that they cannot respond to anyone. There could be communication and legal issues between the Foundry and KRE, specifically the Foundry not providing information until they know what their liability is. KRE might be caught in the middle.

A few posts back RRE and KRE are in the same sentence. KRE is not in that group, KRE is a class act and has done a lot for our hobby. Nobody knows what’s going on in the background, KRE is not responding for a reason
Brad

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"This is exactly what I think they are trying to do, in addition why nothing has been said. They need to determine what blocks, what Foundry and what exactly occurred. Until they know that they cannot respond to anyone. There could be communication and legal issues between the Foundry and KRE, specifically the Foundry not providing information until they know what their liability is. KRE might be caught in the middle."

I agree with that concept EXCEPT that KRE OWES THE RACERS a notification to cease racing activities until it can be identified which blocks are in the failure arena vs possible good ones.

If ONE RACER DIES ONE DAY LATE I personally will have no sympathy for KRE/K+M's legal issues with the foundry.

At this point I think that is the ABSOLUTE LEAST that they could do in this matter.

AS ROB SAID: "Anyone racing a MR-1 should stop and do a brinell test/4th main saddle inspection before running again."

I agree.

Tom V.

[russ467]

I just wondering if the founderies that Kaughman has hired to pour their blocks is ISO9001 Certified ( its been a while since I have been in the manufacturing business, I think that should be up to date)?

Its quite obvious that either a huge mistake was made on Kaughmans behalf, or the foundary is not producing a qualitiy product and quality control is out the window. Either way, Kaughman is the last link in quality control. It seems odd that the foundary dropped the ball as well as the Kaughmans. These blocks that were not produced to spec, should have been scrapped. They should have planned for a certain % to be bad in the 1st place. Its not like they were selling blemished blocks with BLEM stamped on the side at a reduced rate.

How many times did we hear of delays from All-Pontiac because they were cutting up blocks ect.... to insure a quality product was being put out. Heard nothing from Kre.

I was planning on buying HP heads from them this winter, but I've decided to abandon that idea and check out my other options.

Its pretty bad when Wenzlers are becoming an option again!