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| Pontiac Business Entities Exchange Sources, Compliments and Grievances in regard to Pontiac parts or services rendered by an individual or business. |
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#61
10-19-2006, 07:04 PM
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#62
10-19-2006, 07:54 PM
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#63
10-19-2006, 07:59 PM
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I'm not in a court of law and you're not the judge on the bench. I don't have to prove anything to you. You own one of these blocks and asked for help in identifying if yours was Brian's or not. I'm just trying to HELP YOU. Do your own investigation (or not), you'll not receive any more help from me.
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#64
10-19-2006, 08:45 PM
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Regarding the cylinder that was just over .080" wall thickness, that would be a grenade! My old motor had a wall that was <.090" and it went, kaaabooom!
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Tempest455 |
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#65
10-19-2006, 08:45 PM
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I have bought 2 sets of heads along with misc parts from Kauffman. I'm very happy with the quality and the results of my purchases and their customer service.
Jeff has responded to all of my emails the next day unless they were away racing. They GAVE me a starter at Pontiac Heaven this year when mine took a dump and told me to just send him a check when I got home. I'm currently working on a 389 and wanted to drop the compression by adding a thicker Cometic head gasket. Jeff sent me a set to check and see if they would work but because of the relief in the top of the cylinder thay wont. Cometic doesn't cut their gasket like Felpro. Again, he didn't charge me up front. He just sent them to me. Now I'll send them back and I'll also cover his freight. There are also a few other Pontiac owners in our club that have dealt with Kauffman and seem to be satisfied. All I'm doing is letting YOU ALL know how happy I am with their products and customer service.
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You know it's going to be a good day when you wake up breathing! |
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#67
10-19-2006, 09:48 PM
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Systems under stress fail catastrophically |
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#68
10-19-2006, 10:07 PM
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I think the big three automotive industry sets the standard in problem resolution. The have recalls and its made public. The consumer is informed by several mediums. So this business enteties exchange, while limited to those who read it and limited to those whos interest serve the pontiac hobby is a good way to identify problems and influence outcomes and speed resolution.
How ever if each customer who had the same problem was delt with differently it becomes discrimination. If resolution is kept hush hush then each of several people with the same set of problems may get a different outcome. That means that those in the know may get more satisfaction than those not in the know. Descrimination. Some may get some measure of resolution and some get none. Those who dont know a problem exists and dont get resolution are at greatest risk and yet they spend the same amount of money and are promised the same product as others, yet can it be said that they really got what they paid for in comparison to others who got more? Could it be said that they got what the they were promised based upon what was paid for. The point of the statement regarding recalls is that not every vendor plays fair. They must be compelled to be fair to all. ideally the insentive is profit. morally it should be fair play. realistically its because they hope and rely on the ignorance and blind trust of the customer to take them at face value. An unlikely event that compells the government to enforce recalls. This forum will not tighten up the cam bearing clearances on the block discussed. it will not thicken up the walls of the cylinders. But it educated all viewers. It allows those of us who may not otherwise be in the know to choose to become more knowlegable consumers or to risk at our peril becoming ignorant. The problem of block integrity itself is of little importance. The company's integrity regarding customer service is important. Not just to see the problem solved but to see how it is solved so that a minimum expected standard of customer service and responsability is established. Typically, customers in the racing hobby have no recourse due to the nature of the hobby and the intended use of the parts. But that understanding is abused when a company manufactures a defective part and will not stand behind it. Consider how much would be lost if the customer took the vendor at his word regarding that block and built an engine around it only to have it blow up due to a thin wall. Blind trust regarding a defective part that a vendor may knowingly and admittedly reintroduce into the market. The very fact that the customer must endure a guntlett of unreasonable demands and conditions from the vender deliberatly intended to make it all but impossible to return a defective product and obtain a refund is as unscrupulous as if the vender ignored or refused to refund the money at all. To attribute the fault in casting or machining the block to the consumer who, trusting the vender assumed ,quite correctly contract law wise, that the vender was acting in good faith, went on to machine the block for his intended perpose. Only to find out that the block was defective and that the vender attributes his defects to the additional machine work needed to bring the block into spec by the customer, then hides behind the no refund policy is a cop out. At this point legally speaking the vendor should compensate the customer for the block, the shipping, the additional expenses incurred by the customer in the additional machine work and all costs incurred in resolving the problem. then there is the pain and suffereing.That would have been a legal outcome should it arrive in the courts. Myself as a customer (who also intended to purchase a KRE block in the next year) will not play Russian roulette on this monetary scale knowing that this block or others like it may end up scattered all over the track under my car. Not a pretty sight. (the blown block not the car) Customer service is not a brick wall or an obstical to insulate the customer from the vendor. Initial customer contact is almost never angry or wrathfull but it can be when customer service. used as a weapon of self defence is intended to keep the customer separate from thier money and thier satisfaction. If a faulty product is being put out It should always be the vendor and never the customer who is upset. defective parts should never be knowingly and admittedly reintroduced into the mainstream. And from a psycological perspective sharing with a disgruntaled customer, your intention to resell a defective block to another unsuspecting customer as a resolution of the initial problem has some deep seated emotional and security conotations way beyond customer vendor interactions. It goes way back to breast feeding and getting your diaper changed regularly. I'm not trying to be funny here! Just as an Aside. I saw a block on display at Pontiac Heaven this spring and admired the block greatly. But I did place my finger in a hole to judge the thickness of the bore. Purely unscientific but my gut feeling was at the time that the bore seemed awful thin compared to some BBC I've had. Customer service should never be a barrier or obstical to customer comunication with the vendor. You learn so much from your customers Something T-Mobile, Ebay and McLoed industries will never understand. In the absence of that, we have these forums. I'm paying more attention and less money as a result of this. McLoed industries are you listening? Last edited by Pontirag; 10-19-2006 at 10:18 PM. |
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#69
10-19-2006, 10:37 PM
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Pontirag...WOOOOOOOOOOOOW!:clap2:
That's about the best conveyance of "how it should be" I think I've ever had the pleasure to read. I mean, I even got past the spelling errors (LOL). But seriously, that was extremely well put. I don't know about the breast feeding and diaper thing though, that's a little too deep.;)
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Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut. |
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#70
10-20-2006, 02:29 AM
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I normally don't get into these"pissing" contests,but Ken has a point. The basic problem is customer service. I used to work for Raytheon(BEECHCRAFT)
I had to handle a warranty on a NEW windshield for a Super King Air 200. The windshield cracked 10hrs after installation. All the correct paperwork was filed. The warranty claim was denied. Why? we couldn't prove the windshield's attaching screws were torqued correctly. We're talking a $10,000 windshield!! My customer contacted the CEO of Beechcraft directly. Same results. No warranty. End of story: my customer sold their King Air and bought a Citation 5. About a year later, a Beechcraft salesman called on this customer. He wanted to sell them a new Beechjet. My customer told him (the Beech salesman) to" F--k Off!!",literally. I can understand lifter bores being "tight" on a semi-finished block. That's easy enough to fix on a Bridgeport: however, failing Brinnell testing, cam bores machined too big and cylinder walls too thin would cause me to contact my vendor and tighten my own QC. It only takes ONE PO'd customer to do any business ALOT of grief. |
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#71
10-20-2006, 03:16 AM
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<<<QUOTE
"His next statement was he spoke to his lawyer and federal law state I had 90 day to claim defects and if I had modified the piece in anyway he did not have to take it back and how did I want to get my block back." <<<QUOTE Maybe we can get redbox rebel or one of the other licensed lawyers in here but i'm in lawschool, and i highly question whether that quote is true I'd like to speak with that lawyer. . . The Uniform Commercial Code applies here, as it has been passed by all 50 states. The UCC (for short) applies whenever there is a sale of goods. This is obviously a sale... Anyways, the UCC says that a material defect may be rejected after "a reasonable time" the UCC is a flexible document that specifically accounts for large variation in different products - the notes on how it's to be interpreted point to this (as i understand it, as an unlicensed person not practicing law and/or giving legal advice):) Some products you can tell are immediately flawed - visibly (like rotten apples) Other products it realizes may need months of scientific testing to be able to tell if they're properly made (obviously, for example...you can't look at a shipment of computer chips and say 'yep - they're good' or look at something that's supposed to work for 10 straight years - you need to have it undergo substantial testing -which may take a good bit of time) So, why would the gov't put a 90 day limit? Doesn't make sense There is no '90 day limit' and there is no 'federal law' that i know of Federal law? A federal law passed by congress that puts a time limit on how long you have to return something? That's lawyer bull**** aimed and trying to confuse and scare people There's so many things wrong with that idea that i could write 10 pages on it, but you'd all be rather bored in a hurry The issue of it being modified is entirely different, but i'd think that that would follow under the testing prong of a "reasonable period" of inspection... Given the cost and difficulty of procuring race parts...along with the planning involved - a reasonable period should be quite longer than 90 days (merely an opinion) ...something to think about...i'd be filing court papers over 3k (these are just opinions and do not represent legal advice, as i'm not licensed to do so) I have no idea what i'm talking about - i only read books :)
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Clay Marsh 1967 GTO convertible Twin Turbo 5spd project  http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...d.php?t=618281 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9KworCMRE Last edited by baron_; 10-20-2006 at 03:30 AM. |
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#72
10-20-2006, 06:51 AM
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Thanks Glenn, But I have got a 14-71 hi-helix and a buzzard. I do know someone else that might be interested.
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#73
10-20-2006, 07:17 AM
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The block was picked up yesterday at 3:41pm and is headed back to me. I should have it today or monday. Then the fun begins
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#74
10-20-2006, 08:20 AM
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Baron,
Ding, Ding, Ding, Johnny whats behind door number "3"! You are correct there is not a time limit on a manufactures defect! I was with Hunter Engineering Company for eleven years and I can remember when we had a casting problem on are early models of bench brake lathes the first hundred cases would start to flex causing the brake rotor and drum to have an out of round condition induced in the product being resurfaced. It was a year an a half later when the problem really started to rear it's ugly head... So guess what during that time the foundry was moved to the Durant, Mississippi plant and takin away from the company in NC. that was manufacturing them for Hunter and yes Hunter replaced everyone of those brake lathes at no charge what so ever...... Mr. Kaufmann needs to find another lawyer to give him better advise because he's going to be in for a hell of a suprise if these guys get to gether..... I believe that Steve Kaufmann and his lawyer are banking on that they will never get together and that is why he is staying the course that he is. This is very sad indeed because the Kaufmann's are very nice and have been helpful when ever I have spoken with them, I do really feel that they want to help and better the Pontiac Community it's just a crying shame that it does't look that way right now..... Rodney Last edited by Hot Rod; 10-20-2006 at 08:26 AM. |
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#75
10-20-2006, 08:46 AM
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Interesting as far as what anyone can do in the future as far a product sales go?
Guess it boils down to................... How much do you want to stand behind your product with what you claim it is?
and Certain Blocks produced out there have issues that won't pass for what the block was cast aftermarket for. A improved version of the factory block with modifactions and upgrades to be used for Performance. I have seen the old post on PY from Steve Kauffman what this block claims to present. It fell short? Quote:
Sold As is????? I do feel bad for anyone caught in the middle as a sales rep for anything sold that has issues. :( Like was stated throughout this post. This isn't an isolated block deal. Last edited by PONTIAC DUDE; 10-20-2006 at 09:11 AM. |
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#76
10-20-2006, 09:27 AM
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"tensile strength 35,000 PSI twice that of any other block"
But since you didn't catch that in the first 90 days you are stuck with it? WOW!! He also talked of the cam bores and a CNC machine.....and everything checked in house. How did that get past "in house"?
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_____________________________ She woke up sunny side down and I was still thinking I was too proud to flip her over |
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#77
10-20-2006, 09:59 AM
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Interesting read so far. Definitely 'caveat emptor' on this product.
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#78
10-20-2006, 11:04 AM
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Besides Scotts block being discussed here, my bad block and Skip Fix bad block I just got confirmation privatly last night about another one. And this count does not include the block returned by Brian for porisity problems.
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#79
10-20-2006, 11:22 AM
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Pontiac vendors far and wide are tightening up any loose ends in their own customer service as we speak!
Great for the average Pontiac consumer! :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: |
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