[MNBob]

My Pypes longitudinal (dual muffler) system didn’t fit well in the tailpipe area either. The best I could do with it as delivered was not tucked up and the splitters at an odd angle:



Not satisfied, I bought a mig welder and had at it. It was too long above the axle hitting the seat back area in front and the tank in the back. Luckily, I am pretty good at geometry and visualizing space, so I was able to fix it and tuck up the system with three welds and an extra pipe:



I still like the Pypes system, but these are not exact fit systems even though you choose the one for your car type. On the plus side, I now have a mig welder and know how to weld exhaust pipe!

[mgarblik]

The repairs you made are a night and day difference between some hodge podge crappy fitting deal and a proper fit and look. That's why for people not willing to buy a welder, and essentially cut up a "direct fit" kit I would recommend the following. Find an exhaust shop that is willing to work with you. Generally this will be on a Saturday morning if they have any weekend hours. Make sure they understand you are willing to pay them for their time and expertise and not looking for a bargain deal. Then buy the mandrel bends you need from a supplier and even the muffler/mufflers you wish to use. Possibly the hangers and flanges too. Take all the pieces to the exhaust shop and let them make the gentle bends in the pipes and fit the whole thing properly. I have been doing this for decades and have been very satisfied. I also have never spent over $600.00 for an entire system, hangers, flanges, pipes, bends, all welded together and fit perfectly on the car. It just seems like these "direct fit" install yourself systems NEVER fit right, some worse than others.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Just a question. If you all are saying you buy an exhaust kit for $600-800.00. Then have to take the whole mess to an exhaust shop and spend $200-300.00 having the kit cut open, re-bent, and welded back together and installed to fit. Why not just buy a few of the tight bends, mandrel bent, and take them to a good muffler shop and have the rest done there? Seems like less hassle, less cost and less time?

Well mainly because these $600 exhaust kits not fitting generally isn't the norm. I've installed a dozen or more of these kits myself on 3 brands of cars from mustangs, GM F and A-bodies etc...without a single fitment issue. I've only heard of a handful of instances of very minor fitment issues, and never heard anything like the OP here has experienced with 3 pipes that were completely wrong. Could it happen? Sure. But from my experience, it's rare.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by MNBob

My Pypes longitudinal (dual muffler) system didn’t fit well in the tailpipe area either. The best I could do with it as delivered was not tucked up and the splitters at an odd angle:



Not satisfied, I bought a mig welder and had at it. It was too long above the axle hitting the seat back area in front and the tank in the back. Luckily, I am pretty good at geometry and visualizing space, so I was able to fix it and tuck up the system with three welds and an extra pipe:



I still like the Pypes system, but these are not exact fit systems even though you choose the one for your car type. On the plus side, I now have a mig welder and know how to weld exhaust pipe!

That's what I would call a "normal" type of issue that isn't too involved to correct. Like anything aftermarket you buy for these old cars, they sometimes need tweaking. It's to be expected.

Look at the bright side, you now have a mig, something every car hobbyist should have in their garage. If you mess with these cars any length of time you'll find all kinds of uses for it.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Just a question. If you all are saying you buy an exhaust kit for $600-800.00. Then have to take the whole mess to an exhaust shop and spend $200-300.00 having the kit cut open, re-bent, and welded back together and installed to fit. Why not just buy a few of the tight bends, mandrel bent, and take them to a good muffler shop and have the rest done there? Seems like less hassle, less cost and less time?

I don't have a "good" exhaust shop around here anymore...All are half assed hodge podge outfits.

[jwcfbd]

It's not just Pypes that have their problems. I put a flowmaster system on my Firebird and spent a couple of days cutting, welding and cussing before I was happy with it. I had to cut tail pipes to shorten them and to be able to position them better. Once I had the length right I took them to a local shop to get them expanded for the slip joint. I found out in a hurry that direct fit is anything but an easy fit. It was close but took a lot of time to get it right.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Well mainly because these $600 exhaust kits not fitting generally isn't the norm. I've installed a dozen or more of these kits myself on 3 brands of cars from mustangs, GM F and A-bodies etc...without a single fitment issue. I've only heard of a handful of instances of very minor fitment issues, and never heard anything like the OP here has experienced with 3 pipes that were completely wrong. Could it happen? Sure. But from my experience, it's rare.

I am actually glad to hear this. My experience has been they never fit right and by the time I cut,bend and re-weld, I would have been better off starting with mandrel bends and straight tubing. Fitting 3" exhaust in an F body or Mustang has to be really tough. Also having a "quality" go to shop to do the necessary bending is a must. As factory exhaust parts last longer and the work force ages, it will be more difficult to find a craftsman who will take the time to get it right. If only a small % of the current pre-bent direct fit systems need correction, I guess the buyer has no choice other than to take lots of pictures, mark and return the parts. Certainly a hassle. Once parts have been cut, bent, modified to fit, the manufacturer is really in a bind and the customer has that sour taste left from the experience.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I am actually glad to hear this. My experience has been they never fit right and by the time I cut,bend and re-weld, I would have been better off starting with mandrel bends and straight tubing. Fitting 3" exhaust in an F body or Mustang has to be really tough. Also having a "quality" go to shop to do the necessary bending is a must. As factory exhaust parts last longer and the work force ages, it will be more difficult to find a craftsman who will take the time to get it right. If only a small % of the current pre-bent direct fit systems need correction, I guess the buyer has no choice other than to take lots of pictures, mark and return the parts. Certainly a hassle. Once parts have been cut, bent, modified to fit, the manufacturer is really in a bind and the customer has that sour taste left from the experience.

Yeah, I think that's where the OP's problems really started. Once it's modified it puts both the purchaser and the seller in a bind. I can understand both sides, it's unfortunate and an inconvenience but knowing that's how business works you just have to roll with it. I think in the end, even though a hassle to send back, it probably wouldn't have cost the OP a dime once it was all over with.
I don't know of a good exhaust shop around my area. Especially one I would trust with some of the expensive classics I work on. Kind of scary after I've just painted one to turn it loose to another shop. So I like the exhaust kits for that reason.

[mgarblik]

Much like the machine shop area I am involved in, finding quality people that really care is going to get more and more difficult. If most of these kits do in fact bolt-on and fit, that would be a an excellent option. Much like you mentioned, "David", the guy I have been going to for 25 years retired last year. He was an excellent craftsman and welder. He had the dies to bend 3" tubing without crushing it. It would take him 4-5 hours to bend-up and install a dual exhaust system and it would be excellent. Now I am looking once again myself. Referrals are the best way to go.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Speargun

After laying under my '67 Firebird for hours and hours over the last few months trying to get Pypes system lined up correctly, I finally got fed up & took my car to a muffler shop.

What should have been a quick install took close to 3 hours!!!

We finally figured out that the pieces that were welded at the factory, were welded wrong.

So not only did I buy a $600 "bolt together" exhaust system, but I wasted a minimum of 6 hours of my time and had to pay a shop $200 to fix a manufacturing issue.

While I fully understand your frustration for this situation and it is possible that the tailpipes were welded incorrectly, it's quite unlikely. Our welding is all done with pretty detailed jigs. The mandrel pipes can only go in the jig one way.

So assuming that the shop was correct in their needing to modify the tailpipes is unfair. I understand that you tried and got very frustrated doing the installation yourself. I'm sure hearing that the shop confirmed a problem was a welcome vindication for you. But honestly, who do you think knows more about that system? Is it logical and fair to assume we made a mistake in production rather than they made the mistake in installation? How many Pypes SGF63 installation has that shop done? Follow what I'm saying here?

So this is the classic reason why Pypes has big warnings in all the documentation. If we could have seen the suspect parts, we could have put them in the jigs and confirmed whether or not we made a production mistake. If we did, we could and would have taken care of all the inconveniences and costs associated with the defective parts. But because of the way you chose to solve the problem, it will remain a mystery as to what caused the fitment problem.

And to your point about the shop having to stop and wait for a resolution? That is extremely common for a shop to have to set a project aside while they wait for the correct parts. These are classic cars. Shops know that most classic car parts must be purchased via mail order. It happens all the time.

I'll agree 100% that taking off a day of work and busting your knuckles on your back for the day and coming up empty handed is very frustrating. But if exhaust companies had to pay every enthusiast for installation frustration, we'd all be out of business!

I hope I don't sound like condescending a-hole but I honestly feel you got a good price at Turkey Rod Run. You got a stainless 3" mandrel bent system with X-pipe, polished stainless tips, stainless mufflers, clamps, hangers and a lifetime warranty for under $600 and no shipping costs. To pay someone $200 to have a professional installation is a very fair price and time estimate is very fair.

Could the system be easier to install? We have asked ourselves that each year for the last 14 years. Some kits we've improved instructions. Some kits we've improved design. Some kits are just tricky to install. A 3" kit on a 1st Gen F-body is one of those tricky kits. But I know quite a few owners and shops that, once they figure it out, the future installs go really smoothly.

Exhaust systems are very much like puzzles. Initially you push pieces around and around in so many different ways and you sometimes get nowhere. Then all of a sudden, the pieces start to click into place. It just sounds like you never got to that point. And trust me, you are in very good company. It's so much harder to do an install on your back. Let alone a 3" kit on an F-body.

That being said, Pypes and Max Performance make a lot of products for 67 Firebirds. Maybe there is something else you can use that we make? If yes, maybe it would soften this situation if we either gave you something for free or at a very reduced price?

http://coldcaseradiators.com
http://maxperformanceinc.com
http://pypesexhaust.com
http://snappinturtle.com
http://pyautolocks.com

Have a look and shoot me an e-mail at chrisc@pypesexhaust.com

Chris

[77 Canamman]

Chris,

Any plans to address the issues I noted with the SGF70 kit for '77-'81 Trans Ams?

[Ccass]

And to Canamman and MNbob, I'm sure that your intent in this topic was a combination of wanting to help and venting your own frustrations, but to refer to a completely different system and the issues associate with it is basically a thread jack. You are only serving to throw salt on the topic starter wounds and the topic gets very confusing to all that read. You would serve the community so much better if you started another topic in the hopes of resolving your frustrations and at the same time helping to educate other owners that are planning on buying or installing that system.

[77 Canamman]

It shall be done.................

[Ccass]

One of the points that gets lost in a 'bitch' session topic like this is that by and large the vast majority of these kits being purchased are being installed successfully by customers and shops. At almost every show, we get at least a half dozen repeat customers coming back saying they are ready for another kit. And yes, that includes 1st gen 3" F-bodies and SGF70 Crossflow systems. So please at least consider that there are 14 years worth of these systems out there. If these systems consistently required these type of modifications, our dealers and customers wouldn't keep buying them.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

It shall be done.................

[sts]

Son of a gun! How the heck did this post get buried so deep? Problem solved!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Ccass

If we could have seen the suspect parts, we could have put them in the jigs and confirmed whether or not we made a production mistake. If we did, we could and would have taken care of all the inconveniences and costs associated with the defective parts. But because of the way you chose to solve the problem, it will remain a mystery as to what caused the fitment problem.

Chris

This was exactly my thought in a previous post.