[67 black goat]

I am going to build a '70 GTO over the next 5 years or so. It is a 4 speed car but I want to upgrade to manual overdrive.

Rear gears will be either 3:73 or 3:55.
Motor will be a warmed over 400 (375-400hp or so).
Non-ac car.

Is there a simple BOP trany swap or do I have to get adapters or a special bellhousing?

What have you guys done and did you like it?

I attached a pic of the car and future driver!

Thanks.

Layne

[SteveGB21]

I have heard to avoid the Tremec T-5 from the Camaro and Firebird. They were mainly meant for 6 Cylinders and the occasional 305 SB Chevy that can't smoke a tire even if it was on fire. Don't know about the 302 Mustang ones. Best to get a TKO-5000 or TKO-6000. On the bellhousing, don't know anything at all. Wish I could help more.

[marxjunk]

im trying this on my next project...

a guy here was selling this and he did all the leg work..i just copied it


. This is an Aisin MA5 or AR5 from a 2007 Chevy Colorado truck with 75,000 miles and a Novak adapter for mating the transmission to the standard Muncie/Tremec/Borg Warner transmission pattern. With this adapter, you can mate this transmission to any factory GM bellhousing and bolt it up to any GM engine while maintaining the stock clutch, linkage, throw out bearing, etc.

The Mallett LS2 V8 Solstices also used this transmission so it is up to the handling some power (light weight of Solstice helped). I'm not sure I'd put it behind a built 400, but stock maybe. It should handle any mild 326/350 no problem.

You can see a discussion about a guy that was planning to put it in a 64 GTO here: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/colo...wap-63568.html

Aisin AR5/MA5 Info:
Same yoke as TH350/muncie/etc.
Same transmission mount as TH350.
Same input shaft spline and diameter as TH350/muncie/etc. Input shaft length for a Muncie is 6.5 this transmission with adapter is 6.75, which shouldn't be an issue.
Gear ratios: 1 - 3.75 2 - 2.26 3 - 1.37 4 - 1.00 5 - 0.73 R - 3.67
Applications: Based off same design as Toyota Supra R154, but with updated synchros. Some Supra guys have submitted them to serious power.
Synchros: Triple cone synchros

[Ben M.]

I've got a '69 in the same boat: original top loader 3 speed and 3.55 gears make for fun on the street but not on the freeway. I do NOT want to cut the floor much if at all while still maintaining the factory console and am very interested in what I can find out there.

Gear Vendors supposedly makes an overdrive tail shaft for the 3 and 4 speeds, but for $2995 I'd be curious about what marxjunk has suggested. A 5 speed is pretty nice too for more fun and versatility.

[Dens71TA]

First gear on that Aisin trans is terrible for low end torque V8 engines like Pontiacs. I had a 1981 Trans Am with the 3.42 ratio first gear Borg-Warner T-10 and it was useless. It was basically a granny gear and felt like taking off in an old dump truck.

TKO-500 and 600 are a common swap but require transmission tunnel mods on A-bodies. You could get a Legend Gear LTG-700 trans like what Kiesler Engineering was trying to pass off as their own SS700 design before they went bankrupt. These are out the same size as a Muncie.

[mnfatcat]

That 3:75 1st gear with a 3:55 rear would be about the same as a close ratio Muncie with a 6:14 rear gear, might get old real quick. If someone actually does this swap, I don't think they would EVER even want to come close to actually trying to make the car hook, that 1st gear would not stand up. The trans was intended for a light weight pick up with a wimp motor, keep looking.

[marxjunk]

i dunno..there are positives and negs on all swaps..

the pos..they are cheap..easy to get..if you dont have the rear yet..3.23s or 3.08s are more usable..its a driver..not a race car.



ive seen them at 500 or less...i am going to try one anyway..dont need that much rear gear....

[Tim john]

Tremec TKO-600 5 speed will bolt right up to your factory bellhousing. Nothing exotic, just bolt in and go. You will have to relocate your original cross memebr, two of the factory holes can be used so just drill one on each side to move the transmission mount and you are done. Clutch plate will be fine spline for the Tremec and front U-joint on drive shaft will need to be changed out and drive shaft length shortened. 3 tasks for the swap and my opinion is I would go with the .064 5th. gear and 3:73's. This will be the best enhancement you have ever done for driving pleasure. Crusing along at 70 mph at 2,000 rpm, you can hold a conversation, listen to the radio and sip gas through a straw, less wear and tear on your engine, etc... No drawbacks at all, all good.

Contact HURST Driveline Conversions out in California (Jim) and they will fix you up right the first time or Bowler Transmission, I have heard good things about them (Bowler) but no experience personally.

Tim john---

[David Jones]

With an offset shifter the TKO will work with a factory console.

[stickboy]

Richmond 5 speed and 2.73 gearing. Find one used for 1000, 2 series posi should be cheap...will handle a street built 400, no cutting, etc. good luck.

[Brad_bb]

You really cannot compare one combination to another unless you look at the total gear ratio from the trans gear, rear end, and tire diameter. I went through an explanation and some sample calculations, as well as a number of different combinations, in the 64-65 tech forum here
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=748471

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by stickboy

Richmond 5 speed and 2.73 gearing. Find one used for 1000, 2 series posi should be cheap...will handle a street built 400, no cutting, etc. good luck.

If you've got a "richmond" 5speed for less than 1000 - let me know. I might be a buyer.

The problem I've seen with the Richmond trannies is that most are asking almost twice that, plus - you've got the cost of changing out the ring and pinion..

The tremec has a good rep, but with a new driveshaft, offset shifter and shifter handle - the price goes up way past the 2500 or so from the tranny. Those "perfect" fit kits usually push 3500 and that is without the offset shifter.

[KO]

I have Doug Nash/Richmond 5 speed for a little higher than $1000 $1500 trans w shifter

Tremec will require mods to the floor.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

I've got a '69 in the same boat: original top loader 3 speed and 3.55 gears make for fun on the street but not on the freeway. I do NOT want to cut the floor much if at all while still maintaining the factory console and am very interested in what I can find out there.

Gear Vendors supposedly makes an overdrive tail shaft for the 3 and 4 speeds, but for $2995 I'd be curious about what marxjunk has suggested. A 5 speed is pretty nice too for more fun and versatility.

I contacted them some time back;
Their systems require replacing the original tail housing with their unit, which ath te end of the day extends the total legth of input to output shafts.
I was told by the rep at GV that their setups are ONLY negineered for the Muncie 4 speed or Borge Warner T-10/ST-10 ~ and no others.

[b-man]

Probably need to put a good 'bump' in the driveshaft tunnel to clear the GV unit.

The Nash/Richmond 5-speed is your best bet, they make an overdrive 5-speed now if I'm not mistaken.

[unruhjonny]

I'd REALLY like to know if/where a person could get a truley custom gear set made;

This is what I want:
a) to be housed in a muncie case
b) straight cut gears
c) coarse spline input shaft & small output shaft (akin to th350)
d) this gearset: 1st) 2.42 / 2nd) 1.58 / 3rd) 1.00 / 4th) 0.70 / Rev) 2.42

I'd conceded to doing something more akin to the previously offered M22-OD gear sets which used to be offered, if I could do this with the same input & output shafts (think 1965 M22) - but I would still prefer a smidgeon more of an overdriven 4th than what was previously offered;
1st) 2.199 / 2nd) 1.506 / 3rd) 1.000 / 4th) 0.859 / Rev) ??
(briefly discussed in THIS thread)

So many people have suggested cheaper ways for me to do this, but call me a stick in the mud...

[old66tiger]

The legend LGT-700 is pretty cool. Once they get all of the shifter patterns figured out for the various muscle cars, they will be hard to beat. Any TKO will require floor mods in a 64-72 GM a-body. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. F-Bodies are a different story. T

he Richmond shifter will not come out in the right spot for a stock console. I have seen a few installs where the shifter comes out 4" further back compared to a Muncie. If Richmond would get their heads out of the dark side, and taylor a universal shifter for our cars, that tranny would be hard to beat. The shifter location deal was the main reason why Keisler was doing as well as they were in the beginning. The shifter locations were dead on.

Once Legend (Bowler or Spraker Racing) gets the shifter deal figured out...it will make all other tranny suppliers obsolete.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by old66tiger

Any TKO will require floor mods in a 64-72 GM a-body. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

So how come people on the forums here and in this thread indicate that it won't require floor modifications? Who is lying?

I am not opposed to a little clearancing with a hammer, but chopping metal out fully and fabricating new? I have not the skill to do so.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

So how come people on the forums here and in this thread indicate that it won't require floor modifications? Who is lying?

I am not opposed to a little clearancing with a hammer, but chopping metal out fully and fabricating new? I have not the skill to do so.

TKO 600 required major cutting for my 70 GTO.

[David Jones]

I installed a shifter porch and split the tunnel and opened it up some. I'm not sure major mods is accurate. I've seen where people have completely hacked the top off the trans tunnel and I didn't find that to be needed in my case.