[428ho4spd]

I'm curious if there are other '69 GP owners that show NO power steering listed on their PHS invoice, but their car came with p/s from new? My GP is this way and the original owner said that it always had p/s. The date code on the gear box fits the car's build date as well. Thinking that it may have been missed when invoiced?

Grant

[johnta1]

Can you post the PHS?

Does it have a 331 option?

[428ho4spd]

No p/s option shown...

[johnta1]

Very nice GP, Grant!

4 speed with 428, cool.

I think with the SJ model, possibly the PS was standard on it?
(it wouldn't be shown on the PHS if so)
edit: I think yours may not be a SJ like I thought originally

Tried looking for a build sheet?

Very cool GP, any pics of it?

[428ho4spd]

Thanks John!

I'm pretty sure p/s was an option even on the SJ. This is a Model J, optioned with the std 428. It was kind of a strange optioned car as ordered... no radio, rally wheels, rally gauges or tach... although, these options have been added along with a sport steering wheel.

No, I haven't... but like others I've owned there should be a "build order" above the gas tank.

Here's a link to a photo album here... http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...p?albumid=1250

Grant

[johnta1]

Thanks for the pics.



I would think when Old Goat Racer sees this he would be getting some wood on it!



Nice car, is the interior color original?
I thought it would have green interior.
(I don't have much color info on GP's unfortunately)

Is the rear gear 3.23?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 428ho4spd

Thanks John!

I'm pretty sure p/s was an option even on the SJ. This is a Model J, optioned with the std 428. It was kind of a strange optioned car as ordered... no radio, rally wheels, rally gauges or tach... although, these options have been added along with a sport steering wheel.

That's pretty common in the early GTO world: cars with power steering (but not power brakes)...and vise versa.

Not sure that it necessarily translates over into Grand Prix territory.

K

[Matt Meaney]

it was my understanding that that a "standard" power steering box was standard equipment on the Gp and would not show up on the phs. where as, the optional variable ratio unit would show up. does anybody have a phs from a car with manual steering? would it be listed as a credit or no charge option?

[johnta1]

Does anyone have a window sticker for their car?
Would think it would say what the GP came with standard on the left side of it?

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by Matt Meaney

it was my understanding that that a "standard" power steering box was standard equipment on the Gp and would not show up on the phs. where as, the optional variable ratio unit would show up. does anybody have a phs from a car with manual steering? would it be listed as a credit or no charge option?

Fairly certain that they only used variable ratio p/s on the '69 GP's. If no p/s was listed on the invoice as an option, then it would have manual steering. No credit was issued on invoices of factory manual steering GP's that I've seen. This car should have manual steering going by the PHS, but the original owner has said otherwise.

[johnta1]

Look at the GP in this thread:

73 GP

In there it has a link to paperwork on it.

It has the buildsheet and the PHS.
The PHS doesn't show PS either, a butt-load of options though.

The build sheet does show it has power steering.

[muscle_collector]

i couldn't begin to count how many 69-72 gp's I have owned / parted out seriously hundreds of them. NEVER have I owned one that didn't come with power steering.

[Pontiyak]

Originally Posted by 428ho4spd

Fairly certain that they only used variable ratio p/s on the '69 GP's. If no p/s was listed on the invoice as an option, then it would have manual steering. No credit was issued on invoices of factory manual steering GP's that I've seen. This car should have manual steering going by the PHS, but the original owner has said otherwise.

Grant,
I looked through all the PHS's have on file for 69 cars whether being 428/428 HO or auto/manual show it as pwr strg-var code 501.
Like you said I also believe that is all there was when it came to PS cars.

Now yours not showing it that is a mystery.

Dave

[supcarbob]

A possibility is that car had power steering added when car was new in dealer inventory. At our dealership I did most of car ordering for stock or a customer order. Cars were ordered from an order form that options were checked off. I know from my experience , we had several mistakes that came in that an order box was not checked or checked wrong. A Grand Prix would have been a tough sell from stock with out power steering and the dealer could have had there service department add the Pontiac accessory kit for power steering to car before placed in inventory. A customer buying car most of the time would not have known that, they just knew it had power steering when purchased.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by supcarbob

A possibility is that car had power steering added when car was new in dealer inventory. At our dealership I did most of car ordering for stock or a customer order. Cars were ordered from an order form that options were checked off. I know from my experience , we had several mistakes that came in that an order box was not checked or checked wrong. A Grand Prix would have been a tough sell from stock with out power steering and the dealer could have had there service department add the Pontiac accessory kit for power steering to car before placed in inventory. A customer buying car most of the time would not have known that, they just knew it had power steering when purchased.

That's what I would have guessed too, but he said that he was there at the dealership when the car was being delivered and took delivery that same day 10/31/68, Halloween! Also, he special ordered this car, it wasn't a "lot car". I can understand that many mistakes happened when ordering cars and were corrected before delivery, but this just doesn't add up.

[north]

I believe by 73 that PS, PDB and automatic were standard equipment on GP's.

In 69 the only choices were variable ratio power steering or the standard manual 24 to 1 box. The SJ package included PDB but not steering.

I would think there are a few possibilities:

1...factory forgot to bill for PS, very unlikely but possible

2...car was built without by dealer or factory oversight so the dealer added it (car would be a tough sell without it)

3...previous owner was fibbing or forgetting

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

I believe by 73 that PS, PDB and automatic were standard equipment on GP's.

In 69 the only choices were variable ratio power steering or the standard manual 24 to 1 box. The SJ package included PDB but not steering.

I would think there are a few possibilities:

1...factory forgot to bill for PS, very unlikely but possible

2...car was built without by dealer or factory oversight so the dealer added it (car would be a tough sell without it)

3...previous owner was fibbing or forgetting

John,

All good possibilities there... I'm beginning to think scenario 3... forgetting.

[north]

btw, what did the $9.48 Y96 package get you on a GP? Did it include a sway bar upgrade?

On a GTO it didn't change the swaybar (1" either way) and cost $4.21.

On the Tempest-LeMans line it cost $9.48 and upgraded you to a 1" bar from the base 15/16" bar (you've got to wonder why they bothered to have two almost identical sizes)

On the B bodies it also cost $9.48 and you went from 3/4" to 7/8"

On the bird it cost $9.48 as well but I'm not sure what you got (Koni shocks were a separate option)

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

btw, what did the $9.48 Y96 package get you on a GP? Did it include a sway bar upgrade?

On a GTO it didn't change the swaybar (1" either way) and cost $4.21.

On the Tempest-LeMans line it cost $9.48 and upgraded you to a 1" bar from the base 15/16" bar (you've got to wonder why they bothered to have two almost identical sizes)

On the B bodies it also cost $9.48 and you went from 3/4" to 7/8"

On the bird it cost $9.48 as well but I'm not sure what you got (Koni shocks were a separate option)

The believe the larger 1" front sway bar was part of the package. That would explain the price difference between GTO.

[north]

Back on the power steering, if it was built without PS it should have 14x6 rims, check your spare if it's the original rather than the RII's on the car now.