[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Its easy to sit in the CHEAP seats and criticize others....try doing it! How many heads have you made or blocks....what about HP, I'm sure you've made tons of HP. Unless you CAN/or have do/done better id be nicer to others who have! JMO!

GTO George

GTO George

GTOGeorge,
Where are these CHEAP seats you always talk about? My racing days are / have been over. Can I still do it YES. But what I use to do in one night could take me a month now.

Stan

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

GTOGeorge,
Where are these CHEAP seats you always talk about? My racing days are / have been over. Can I still do it YES. But what I use to do in one night could take me a month now.

Stan

You know exactly what the CHEAP seats are, dont play stupid......gosh i hope you're playing!
If someone wants too put a chinese crank or rods in there engine to make 1,000 plus HP go for it, I just wouldn't do it! My opinion!
Lets just move on.


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

I always recommend over kill on all parts because when one part breaks it takes out a whole lot more.....its a money thing! LOL!


GTO George

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

I may do the same thing. The Scat forged with the GRPs. I ran aluminum rods from H-O Racing in the late 80s early 90s on a N crank. I think those rods help.
By the way, your car hauls ass!!!

Jimmy, you will be fine. Get the crank from butler performance. Just make sure the machine work, clearances and oiling is right. Lots of people have broken cranks/rods from lack of oil. Many people blame cranks on broken stuff but there is a reason it broke in the first place.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

Jimmy, you will be fine. Just make sure the machine work, clearances and oiling is right. Lots of people have broken cranks/rods from lack of oil. Many people blame cranks on broken stuff but there is a reason it broke in the first place.

Ditto!


GTO George

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

....... But what I use to do in one night could take me a month now.

Stan

Speaking of CHEAP Seats, I'll avoid the obvious cheap shot here and just shut up.


Jim

[Dragncar]

Thanks guys for dragging my name through the mud hole. But George, since you want to come at me, for whatever reason, we were just getting along so well.
Out of all the "fast" racers around here you are the dumbest one by far with the least high end advice to offer. Basically, no one with a clue listens to you.
Now you can rag on me giving advice on engine parts when I, myself have not been as fast as some. But that does not mean I do not know things and am not intelligent, I am.
If someone asks for advice on what rod is the best one for the money I will tell them Molnar. I believe Tom when I speak to him. I can tell when someone is just trying to sell me something or is all BS with no real knowledge. His credentials are impeccable. I know people running the rods and simply have not heard of one problem. Do think he was lying when he told me 2000HP NO2 engines were coming back with perfect rod bearings or never had a Power Adder rod break in two ? Or I am making it all up ? You saying the offshore rods are only good for 800HP and under is simply not true. There are much different than Scat/Eagle.
I know you are a "union man" and all that. USA all the way. We all would like to buy all US made parts for 100% of our builds. Its just not always in our pocketbooks and it may be the difference between having our play toy or not.
Me buying that block was one of the smartest decisions anyone has made around here for engine component. If you know the price I got that block for you would understand. Its a AP IA2 with 55mm cam and bored for .904 lifters that has two holes that are not "perfect". One has a tiny dark spot you can not even feel with your fingernail. The other is 4.361 . I could sleeve them and run at 4.35 or just bore them all to 4.375 and be done with it. I will do that.
But you know all that because you read it over on Pontiac Zone. I have not posted much about it here because I did not want to deal with d!ldos like you . Odds are its a better race block than yours, you running std cam and lifters ?
If I put up the price I got it for others would call AP wanting something like that form them. Frank must like be because it was the best deal I ever heard of. Have to be stupid not to buy it. One time only deal.
Now I have been at odds with the CV/Roland people, we all know that. But I do have to thank them all for something. They have a relationship with Mr. Molnar and made sure he had cranks and rods available for Pontiacs. Pushed for it, it worked. Toms #2 guy just told me about shipping 10 cranks in one stroke, 15 in another. Thanks. But you all know you should have pushed for a 4" stroke. People want them.
Now George, please be more useful than saying "GRP", "Moldex", "GRP", "KRE". It gets old.
Aluminum rods. We all know I have not run them. But pro stock does and if were a issue for them, beating up the bearings they would not use them. Here is the way I understand it. Your tune window is smaller with steel rods than aluminum. Correct tune on a NA engine and you should not have any problems. I can see where a big blown engine could use aluminum rods. But very few things are harder on rods than 2000HP and NO2.
That tells you all you really need to know.
BTW, I am done with you on this thread.

[hp 400 dave]

I personally would never use anything other than USA made components on my race car or stock GTOs. If I didn't have the funds to purchase a quality US piece, I would wait until I saved enough. I question someone's need for a 800+ hp engine if they are having a hard time spending an extra $2,500 for a quality US crank. That's pocket change compared to the cost of building a competitive car, trans, and engine at that level and above. What ever happened to US pride or go USA? I guess that thought rolled on down the road, most likely hitching a ride in someone's Honda or Volvo.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Your tune window is smaller with steel rods than aluminum. Correct tune on a NA engine and you should not have any problems. I can see where a big blown engine could use aluminum rods. But very few things are harder on rods than 2000HP and NO2.
That tells you all you really need to know.
BTW, I am done with you on this thread.

You are wrong. I have never hurt a rod bearing (rod bearings look like new) but the steel rod causes issues that show up else where
But im sure you'll tell me im wrong since you believe my stuff blows up all the time.

[GTOGEORGE]

Dragncar name one person running molnar rods or crank that making big HP.....Ok I'm waiting? I don't know this Tom person so yes I don't believe him or your judgement....sorry BUT he is trying to sell his products! I guess If I were to buy Chinese stuff i'd check them out. I NEVER mentioned Moldex or KRE, you typed GRP twice..........try again! I know all about your block.....you've mentioned it a million times, IA block with two bad holes.....great deal !



GTO George

[jimmy daniel]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

Jimmy, you will be fine. Get the crank from butler performance. Just make sure the machine work, clearances and oiling is right. Lots of people have broken cranks/rods from lack of oil. Many people blame cranks on broken stuff but there is a reason it broke in the first place.

That’s what I plan to do. I’ve always had good luck with the Butlers. I’ve got a Butler motor in the car now. Pretty sure it will be the Scat crank with GRP rods and Ross pistons. I want the Butlers to assemble it if they can get to it.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

Lots of people have broken cranks/rods from lack of oil. Many people blame cranks on broken stuff but there is a reason it broke in the first place.

X2

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[65nss4spdGTO]

I’ve had multiple cranks in the shop over the years. When Scat first started providing Forged cranks for Pontiacs, they looked much cleaner vs today. All import cranks are pretty much the same IMO. The steel is much softer vs a Crower billet as I’ve cut mulitiple counter weights down on my lathe.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I’ve had multiple cranks in the shop over the years. When Scat first started providing Forged cranks for Pontiacs, they looked much cleaner vs today. All import cranks are pretty much the same IMO. The steel is much softer vs a Crower billet as I’ve cut mulitiple counter weights down on my lathe.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

You ever seen a billet Scat crank?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I’ve had multiple cranks in the shop over the years. When Scat first started providing Forged cranks for Pontiacs, they looked much cleaner vs today. All import cranks are pretty much the same IMO. The steel is much softer vs a Crower billet as I’ve cut mulitiple counter weights down on my lathe.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

That makes me feel better. Mine is from the original batch sent to All Pontiac.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

You are wrong. I have never hurt a rod bearing (rod bearings look like new) but the steel rod causes issues that show up else where
But im sure you'll tell me im wrong since you believe my stuff blows up all the time.

Just enlighten me then. I believe you when you say your short block is fine.
I remember when you were trying to sell your very lightweight crank at one time.
I have had discussions with some very knowledgeable people in making my choice on rods. Aluminum was considered.
I want to go into this with as much high end advice as I could, and chose steel.
If I mentioned the names some would call me a name dropper and say I have not done it myself. So I ask those that have done it at a very high level and get their advice.
And come up with aluminum rods in a NA engine are some sort of crutch for something not done right.
Thats not to say some have good reason for running aluminum rods in a NA engine, I am sure they do.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Just enlighten me then. I believe you when you say your short block is fine.
I remember when you were trying to sell your very lightweight crank at one time.
I have had discussions with some very knowledgeable people in making my choice on rods. Aluminum was considered.
I want to go into this with as much high end advice as I could, and chose steel.
If I mentioned the names some would call me a name dropper and say I have not done it myself. So I ask those that have done it at a very high level and get their advice.
And come up with aluminum rods in a NA engine are some sort of crutch for something not done right.
Thats not to say some have good reason for running aluminum rods in a NA engine, I am sure they do.

I have never owned a light weight. Both my billets are/were heavy. Light weight without the center count weights leads to bad flexing imo. Although my Scat billet flexed like a noodle even though it was wasn't lightened. Maybe i had other issues?? If i did we never found what it was and things are great now with the center counter weights (i had a couple of discussions about it with Leech and he agreed with me and said he had same issue that's why he went to a Bryant billet vs his Crower). Ill be curious to hear how your main bearings look after a couple season. But im don't think you'll be stressing things nearly as much as i was so they'll probably be ok.

By the way BES puts alum rods in the highend Pontiacs they build. I wonder why?

[BruceWilkie]

Even HO recommended aluminum rods. BME still mentions Pontiac

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Even HO recommended aluminum rods. BME still mentions Pontiac

They recommended BME aluminum rods because by the 80s all their was for rod choice was hard to find factory SD 455 rods(bought some) real hard to find early SD rods (had some) and Crower billet. Crower stopped making their Pontiac forged rod.
I paid 800$ for new SD 455 rods, had them military grad shot peened and re sized, 1200+ $.
Could have bought BME aluminum for 800$.

HO recommended BME rods simply out of availability. It was a large part of it. You think if Crower still made a forged steel Pontiac rod it would have not been in their catalog ?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I have never owned a light weight. Both my billets are/were heavy. Light weight without the center count weights leads to bad flexing imo. Although my Scat billet flexed like a noodle even though it was wasn't lightened. Maybe i had other issues?? If i did we never found what it was and things are great now with the center counter weights (i had a couple of discussions about it with Leech and he agreed with me and said he had same issue that's why he went to a Bryant billet vs his Crower). Ill be curious to hear how your main bearings look after a couple season. But im don't think you'll be stressing things nearly as much as i was so they'll probably be ok.

By the way BES puts alum rods in the highend Pontiacs they build. I wonder why?

Mikes Crower, did he have a billet without the center counterweights ? Do you know why he had Bryant do the new 8 weight crank vs just having Crower make it ?
Its not like I would not like to have a real billet with all the weights, I would. Made the calls and if a good deal came up on a used one i would get it. But I got my very early Scat for 200$. Traded some Crower billet rods I only had 200$ into.
I won't spin my engine for big RPMs. Too expensive and risky.
But we all know Mike had 18-1 with steel rods. The best sounding NA Pontiac I have ever heard.
I directly asked Tom Molnar about Pro Stocks and steel rods, why. He told me they make slightly more power with steel rods its just the tune has to be dead on.
Someone saying he is not a authority on steel cranks and rods is the same guy who would say Ed Iskenderian does not know cams.
BES, bet they feel safer with aluminum rods for their customers.